Public Service Announcement: Modding and Warranty

[fenix-silver]

if they block the ecu, the tuners will find a way to unlock them, we have already seen it with bmw and others

Like I said, if they REALLY wanted to lock the ECU they could. Just get rid of using EEPROMs.

it is up to the tuner or creator of the software to find a way not to make the dealer recognize the flash

Uh, that's not possible.

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[Andre80]

from what i know, there is a way to not increase the write counter, or reset it

I just googled

 

[fenix-silver]

from what i know, there is a way to not increase the write counter, or reset it

I just googled

I misunderstood what you were trying to say then. I thought you were trying to say that tuners should be able to hide a currently flashed tune from a dealer.

 

[Design]

You did reference the MMWA, which is what I quoted in my reply​

I don't understand the purpose of your post or the time you put into it as I've stated 2x now that Honda's warranty does not stipulate modifying a vehcile voids a warranty (that's illegal under the MMWA), but should such a modification cause damage, that damage would not be covered, but again, damage would have to have occurred that Honda can irrecovably show was a result of the modification (it's not beyond a reasonable doubt, or I believe, or my educated opinion... the MMWA states quite clearly a direct correlation must be proven and the burden of proof is on the manufacturer, NOT the consumer).

• In other words, flashing an ECU back to stock cannot irrevocably show, under any stretch of the imaginination, damage occurred... it simply shows the ECU was flashed back to stock (Occam's Razor)
  • It's worth noting here that it's due to the spread of misinformation on forums and Facebook groups like this that owners feel they should flash back to stock when taking their vehicle into a dealership, because forums and groups have made them believe the factual inaccuracy that they risk having warranty coverage issues. Leave the damn ECUs flashed with the custom tune...
    Just an FYI, there are no logs or data kept about the transmission gear shifts on the ECU. Anyone can verify this with a DST-i and a subscription to HDS.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink...​

I don't get where the misunderstanding is coming from... this refers to a FAILURE... It appears you're not even bothering to read the content of posts you're replying to, as you seem to be under the illogical conclusion a modification causes failures whenever such modification is done.

Best of luck, as I've tried to be patient in explaining this and it's the second time you've replied to my posts where it's patently obvious you're not reading, or are misreading, them. Seriously bro...​

I know you're trying to help by providing factual information here. But the reality is that very few outside of large scale builders/tuners would have the knowledge or resources to provide this type of evidence in a way that's overwhelmingly convincing to the manufacturer (or a judge).

By the time that AHM has gotten involved, a Regional Engineer has likely looked over the vehicle and determined probable cause (or has been provided that information from the dealer). It then becomes your word against theirs. In the original example, the user likely slammed the gears at WOT or subjected the vehicle to repeated hard launches. Is it possible there was a manufacturing defect? Possibly, but the user's behavior is going to be the more likely cause in Honda's eyes.

The real purpose of this thread is to digest the impacts of either 1) sucking up the expense to replace a potentially expensive failure, or 2) paying a larger sum (and/or sacrificing an incredible amount of time) to fight your case, assuming anyone is willing to take it.

CN: We can throw laws, terms, and owner rights at this subject until we're blue in the face. It likely would do little to affect the outcome, once a determination has been made.

 

[gtman]

Design, I agree 100% and this is what I've been trying to convey, to no avail. We all know the words that are written in the M-M act. But the reality is (applying it to an aftermarket ECU tune), the act likely won't save your powertrain warranty in the event of a catastrophic failure while tuned. That's all I'm trying to say, nothing more. I understand the the M-M act protects consumer rights. But, anyone giving the impression that the M-M act will assure your powertrain warranty (after a catastrophic failure while tuned) isn't in tune with the likely real world ramifications and outcomes.

 

[amirza786]

You did reference the MMWA, which is what I quoted in my reply​

I don't understand the purpose of your post or the time you put into it as I've stated 2x now that Honda's warranty does not stipulate modifying a vehcile voids a warranty (that's illegal under the MMWA), but should such a modification cause damage, that damage would not be covered, but again, damage would have to have occurred that Honda can irrecovably show was a result of the modification (it's not beyond a reasonable doubt, or I believe, or my educated opinion... the MMWA states quite clearly a direct correlation must be proven and the burden of proof is on the manufacturer, NOT the consumer).

• In other words, flashing an ECU back to stock cannot irrevocably show, under any stretch of the imaginination, damage occurred... it simply shows the ECU was flashed back to stock (Occam's Razor)
  • It's worth noting here that it's due to the spread of misinformation on forums and Facebook groups like this that owners feel they should flash back to stock when taking their vehicle into a dealership, because forums and groups have made them believe the factual inaccuracy that they risk having warranty coverage issues. Leave the damn ECUs flashed with the custom tune...
    Just an FYI, there are no logs or data kept about the transmission gear shifts on the ECU. Anyone can verify this with a DST-i and a subscription to HDS.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink...​

I don't get where the misunderstanding is coming from... this refers to a FAILURE... It appears you're not even bothering to read the content of posts you're replying to, as you seem to be under the illogical conclusion a modification causes failures whenever such modification is done.

Best of luck, as I've tried to be patient in explaining this and it's the second time you've replied to my posts where it's patently obvious you're not reading, or are misreading, them. Seriously bro...​

I never read it in my life. I don't care to. Never will. So I couldn't have referenced something I have never read

 

[Andre80]

I don't understand English very much, but we are all saying the same thing

 

[FlexRex]

@JW0914 i think you should try it, ie prove it, so bring your tuned car to the dealer and when they flag it explain them why they shouldnt per MM. See what happens.

Then come back and tell us. A real world case study is worth a 1000 hypothetical words.

MM doesnt apply to modifying vehicle or parts to change the oem characteristics. It protects you from being forced to buy “specific” brand name oem replacements when you can buy an aftermarket “oem replacement.” Modifying your ecu or any other parts to perform OUTSIDE oem parameters/specs will void your warranty/claims for obvious reasons not covered by the MM. MM covers only aftermarket “oem” replacement parts. Nothing in MM suggests you can get an injen intake, flash your ecu or install a downpipe and still be covered. Replacement oem aftermarket parts is the name of the MM game, not aftermarket PERFORMANCE or offroad parts.

 

[Andre80]

[QUOTE = "amirza786, post: 744838, membro: 23793"] Non l'ho mai letto in vita mia. Non mi interessa. Mai. Quindi non avrei potuto fare riferimento. Ora rallenta il compagno di caffeina o un giorno soffierai una guarnizione .... [/ PREVENTIVO]


https://www.civicx.com/threads/my-friend-blew-his-motor-on-tsp-stage-2.44785/page-18#post-740335


la speranza è l'ultima a morire

 

[amirza786]

[QUOTE = "amirza786, post: 744838, membro: 23793"] Non l'ho mai letto in vita mia. Non mi interessa. Mai. Quindi non avrei potuto fare riferimento. Ora rallenta il compagno di caffeina o un giorno soffierai una guarnizione .... [/ PREVENTIVO]


https://www.civicx.com/threads/my-friend-blew-his-motor-on-tsp-stage-2.44785/page-18#post-740335


la speranza è l'ultima a morire

Haha my friend, I am assuming that's Italian. Scusa amico, non parlo italiano!

 

[FlexRex]

[QUOTE = "amirza786, post: 744838, membro: 23793"] Non l'ho mai letto in vita mia. Non mi interessa. Mai. Quindi non avrei potuto fare riferimento. Ora rallenta il compagno di caffeina o un giorno soffierai una guarnizione .... [/ PREVENTIVO]


https://www.civicx.com/threads/my-friend-blew-his-motor-on-tsp-stage-2.44785/page-18#post-740335


la speranza è l'ultima a morire

E chi ha bisogno di speranza quando hai Zlatan. Milan o Inter?

 

[Andre80]

hope is the last to die

sorry the automatic translator messes up even more

I just wanted to say that everyone, even you, in the event of a fault, hope to go under warranty

Then if we are discovered amen, but everyone would try

 

[Andre80]

E chi ha bisogno di speranza quando hai Zlatan. Milan o Inter?

I don't follow football, it's a useless sport

 

[FlexRex]

I don't follow football, it's a useless sport

Me either but i follow Zlatan. Zlatan > football.

 

[FlexRex]

Do you guys know what Zlatan got his wife for her birthday?

Nothing. She already has Zlatan.

I know i know, nothing to do with the topic of this thread but nonetheless as relevant as the MM Act.

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