gtman
Senior Member
- First Name
- Mitch
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2015
- Messages
- 11,996
- Reaction score
- 16,600
- Location
- USA
- Website
- www.civicx.com
- Car(s)
- 2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
- Vehicle Showcase
- 2
- Thread starter
- #1
Everyone knows that tuning improves performance. But what about long term reliability and safety?
I created this thread to try to document just that and to get an overview of owner's overall tuning experiences.
If you currently have a tuned 10th gen (or were tuned in the past), help everyone in the community and add your car. It only takes a few minutes.
Includes Type R, Si, 1.5T and 2.0 NA. Every tuned car added helps build our tuning knowledge base and helps others decide if tuning is right for them.
Please use the format below when adding your car to the thread (my car used as an example):
Vehicle: 2017 Civic EX-L sedan
Total tuned time: 43 months
Tuned miles driven: 20,000+
Tuning device(s) used: Hondata CARB Flashpro; currently using KTuner V2
Tunes used: Hondata +6 and my own +7.5 tune; KTuner Dual Starter 21 w/aggressive quick adjustments; customized TSP Stage 1; Phearable Stage 1.5; currently using Phearable's 1.5R tune
Fuel used: Sunoco 93 Ultra (exclusively)
Additional related mods: PRL silicone hose / aFe Pro Dry S filter combo
Problems/issues: None
Driving style: Slightly speedy with aggressive bursts from time to time.
Tuning experience notes: I've never had a mod transform a car like tuning has. The main reason I tuned was to reduce the feeling of turbo and CVT lag when quickly going from light to heavy throttle. Tuning has definitely reduced the lag by maybe 90% and gives me a completely different driving experience. My car went from a peppy commuter to a bit of a sleeper and mpgs are only slightly lower since tuning (mostly due to a heavier foot). My current Phearable 1.5R is the best tune I've used so far. It's amazingly smooth.
At the end of your post, attach pics, timeslips, videos, dyno results, etc...
-----------------------------------
Current thread stats and info (as of 10/26/21)
Tuned cars submitted: 812
1.5T Non-Si: 374; Si: 356; CTR: 59; 2.0 NA: 23
Total tuned miles driven: 11,658,250 (reported)
Most tuned miles: choo (139,000)
Cars with over 25,000 tuned miles: 118
Cars with major drivetrain failures: 18 (2.3%)
Failures by model: Si 4; Non-Si 14*; 2.0 NA 0; CTR 0
Failures by tune type: Base 8; OTS 3; Custom 7
Percentage of cars running reliably: 97.7%
Transmissions: CVT 283 (35%); Manual 529 (65%)
Base models: 70% CVT; 30% Manual
Upgraded clutches installed: 89 (16%)
CVT failure rate: 1.9% (5)
Hondata used for tuning: 175; Race (150) Carb (25)
KTuner used for tuning: 674; V1.2 (381) V2 (293)
Other devices used: JB4 3; RaceChip 4; Motec 4
Usage rate: KTuner 79%; Hondata 20%; Other 1%
Pro custom tuned cars: 161 (20%)
Base tuned only cars: 248 (30%)
Most popular OTS tune: TSP Stage 1 (331) (41%)
Other popular OTS tune: Phearable Stage 1.5 (166)
Newest OTS tunes: TSP 1+ (45); Phearable 1.5R (34)
Recommended pro tuners: Derek Robinson, John Vega
Most popular fuel used: 93 octane (423; 52%)
Users adding 1-1.5 gallons E85: 97 (12%)
Flex fuel kits installed: 89 (11%)
No bolt ons added: 249 (30%)
Bolt ons added (not FBO): 397 (49%)
Cars with full bolt ons: 166 (21%)
Overall bolt on usage: 70%
Cold air intakes installed: 307 (38%)
Short ram intakes installed: 93 (12%)
Upgraded intercoolers installed: 254 (31%)
Aftermarket downpipes installed: 245 (30%)
Aftermarket frontpipes installed: 172 (21%)
Upgraded turbo inlet pipes installed: 72 (8%)
Upgraded turbos installed: 64 (7%)
Thread Notes: The most installed bolt ons are intakes (47%), intercoolers, downpipes and exhaust systems. Full bolts ons (for purposes of this thread) consist of downpipe, frontpipe, intercooler and intake at a minimum. "Base tuned only" means an out of the box KTuner or Hondata tune was used exclusively; no canned tune from Phearable, TSP or other vendors was ever used. In this thread, a drop-in filter/silicone hose combo is not considered a bolt on.
Major Failures: 1 car had a failed CVT (replaced under warranty). 1 car had a blown head gasket. 1 car blew a CVT pushing the car hard with an existing emissions problem. 1 car blew an engine running an E35/meth setup. 1 car blew an engine on the racetrack. 1 car blew an engine when the owner mistakenly used non-race gas with a tune designed specifically for race gas. 1 owner had major failures on a used car he purchased. 1 owner admitted he abused his car and destroyed his engine. 1 non-Si owner used a high power stage 2 Powermetric flex fuel tune w/full bolt ons and blew his motor. 1 owner had his CVT replaced under warranty (damaged by high power ethanol tune); the new CVT has been trouble free for 70,000+ tuned miles. 1 car threw a rod under "iffy" circumstances according to it's owner (possible abuse/user error). 1 owner destroyed his CVT after some track time in 100° weather. 1 car had a bent connecting rod but there were many factors (neglect) beyond the tune. 1 car bent a rod while doing WOT datalogging for a custom remote tune (had run meth for a short time as well). 1 car blew a CVT after serious neglect/abuse with numerous brake launches and burnouts. 1 Si blew a transmission running a high power flex fuel tune (full bolt ons). * 1 car in the thread (an aggressively driven FBO 1.5T European CR-V) cracked a cylinder sleeve and had an exhaust side turbo crack. 1 car bent rods and had bearing material in the oil.
Failure Notes: 63% of Non-Si engine failures occurred in hatchback models (mostly attributed to weaker rods). Only 3 off the shelf tuned cars have had failures. Only 1 car had a failure running a no bolt on setup. The Si failure rate is only 1.2%: engine (3); transmission (1). Non-Si 1.5T models have the most failures: engine (9); transmission (5).
Lesser Issues: There's been issues reported here and there with the stock clutch, CVT, some injector replacements and occasional fuel trim and knock control funkiness (depending on intake and gas used). There was one failed aftermarket turbo (W1). None of these issues were catastrophic.
Observations: From the thread data so far, running an OTS tune with no added bolt ons appears to be the safest setup. Properly tuned, adding bolt ons can be fairly reliable, too. The issues seem to happen most often when power output is pushed too high, owners attempt to self-tune too aggressively, or there is some abuse or neglect involved.
I often hear people say "it's a waste to tune a 1.5T CVT Civic". The idea being that the CVT can't handle high power. This video of a John Vega tuned Touring sedan might change that point of view. The fact is, a higher power tuned CVT can be reliable (limiting torque down low is key).
Updates: Since this is an ongoing experience and reliability thread, please add a new post from time to time. Use that new post to show additional tuned miles driven, changes to your tune or mod setup, any issues that occur and any new tuning experience notes. Update with a new post only. Don't edit and overwrite your original post.
Datalogs: As a thank you for having added your car here, I'll gladly read your datalogs (Hondata or KTuner). Just put them in a .zip file and make sure the KTuner logs are in .kdlg format only.
Summary: There is no doubt that a tune is the single best power-based performance modification. Having said that, tuning does add additional stress so be mindful of that. Long term reliability can be compromised if you tune for ultimate power on stock internals or abuse your ride. Do proper and timely maintenance, use common sense and your tuning experience should go well. - gtman
I created this thread to try to document just that and to get an overview of owner's overall tuning experiences.
If you currently have a tuned 10th gen (or were tuned in the past), help everyone in the community and add your car. It only takes a few minutes.
Includes Type R, Si, 1.5T and 2.0 NA. Every tuned car added helps build our tuning knowledge base and helps others decide if tuning is right for them.
Please use the format below when adding your car to the thread (my car used as an example):
Vehicle: 2017 Civic EX-L sedan
Total tuned time: 43 months
Tuned miles driven: 20,000+
Tuning device(s) used: Hondata CARB Flashpro; currently using KTuner V2
Tunes used: Hondata +6 and my own +7.5 tune; KTuner Dual Starter 21 w/aggressive quick adjustments; customized TSP Stage 1; Phearable Stage 1.5; currently using Phearable's 1.5R tune
Fuel used: Sunoco 93 Ultra (exclusively)
Additional related mods: PRL silicone hose / aFe Pro Dry S filter combo
Problems/issues: None
Driving style: Slightly speedy with aggressive bursts from time to time.
Tuning experience notes: I've never had a mod transform a car like tuning has. The main reason I tuned was to reduce the feeling of turbo and CVT lag when quickly going from light to heavy throttle. Tuning has definitely reduced the lag by maybe 90% and gives me a completely different driving experience. My car went from a peppy commuter to a bit of a sleeper and mpgs are only slightly lower since tuning (mostly due to a heavier foot). My current Phearable 1.5R is the best tune I've used so far. It's amazingly smooth.
At the end of your post, attach pics, timeslips, videos, dyno results, etc...
-----------------------------------
Current thread stats and info (as of 10/26/21)
Tuned cars submitted: 812
1.5T Non-Si: 374; Si: 356; CTR: 59; 2.0 NA: 23
Total tuned miles driven: 11,658,250 (reported)
Most tuned miles: choo (139,000)
Cars with over 25,000 tuned miles: 118
Cars with major drivetrain failures: 18 (2.3%)
Failures by model: Si 4; Non-Si 14*; 2.0 NA 0; CTR 0
Failures by tune type: Base 8; OTS 3; Custom 7
Percentage of cars running reliably: 97.7%
Transmissions: CVT 283 (35%); Manual 529 (65%)
Base models: 70% CVT; 30% Manual
Upgraded clutches installed: 89 (16%)
CVT failure rate: 1.9% (5)
Hondata used for tuning: 175; Race (150) Carb (25)
KTuner used for tuning: 674; V1.2 (381) V2 (293)
Other devices used: JB4 3; RaceChip 4; Motec 4
Usage rate: KTuner 79%; Hondata 20%; Other 1%
Pro custom tuned cars: 161 (20%)
Base tuned only cars: 248 (30%)
Most popular OTS tune: TSP Stage 1 (331) (41%)
Other popular OTS tune: Phearable Stage 1.5 (166)
Newest OTS tunes: TSP 1+ (45); Phearable 1.5R (34)
Recommended pro tuners: Derek Robinson, John Vega
Most popular fuel used: 93 octane (423; 52%)
Users adding 1-1.5 gallons E85: 97 (12%)
Flex fuel kits installed: 89 (11%)
No bolt ons added: 249 (30%)
Bolt ons added (not FBO): 397 (49%)
Cars with full bolt ons: 166 (21%)
Overall bolt on usage: 70%
Cold air intakes installed: 307 (38%)
Short ram intakes installed: 93 (12%)
Upgraded intercoolers installed: 254 (31%)
Aftermarket downpipes installed: 245 (30%)
Aftermarket frontpipes installed: 172 (21%)
Upgraded turbo inlet pipes installed: 72 (8%)
Upgraded turbos installed: 64 (7%)
Thread Notes: The most installed bolt ons are intakes (47%), intercoolers, downpipes and exhaust systems. Full bolts ons (for purposes of this thread) consist of downpipe, frontpipe, intercooler and intake at a minimum. "Base tuned only" means an out of the box KTuner or Hondata tune was used exclusively; no canned tune from Phearable, TSP or other vendors was ever used. In this thread, a drop-in filter/silicone hose combo is not considered a bolt on.
Major Failures: 1 car had a failed CVT (replaced under warranty). 1 car had a blown head gasket. 1 car blew a CVT pushing the car hard with an existing emissions problem. 1 car blew an engine running an E35/meth setup. 1 car blew an engine on the racetrack. 1 car blew an engine when the owner mistakenly used non-race gas with a tune designed specifically for race gas. 1 owner had major failures on a used car he purchased. 1 owner admitted he abused his car and destroyed his engine. 1 non-Si owner used a high power stage 2 Powermetric flex fuel tune w/full bolt ons and blew his motor. 1 owner had his CVT replaced under warranty (damaged by high power ethanol tune); the new CVT has been trouble free for 70,000+ tuned miles. 1 car threw a rod under "iffy" circumstances according to it's owner (possible abuse/user error). 1 owner destroyed his CVT after some track time in 100° weather. 1 car had a bent connecting rod but there were many factors (neglect) beyond the tune. 1 car bent a rod while doing WOT datalogging for a custom remote tune (had run meth for a short time as well). 1 car blew a CVT after serious neglect/abuse with numerous brake launches and burnouts. 1 Si blew a transmission running a high power flex fuel tune (full bolt ons). * 1 car in the thread (an aggressively driven FBO 1.5T European CR-V) cracked a cylinder sleeve and had an exhaust side turbo crack. 1 car bent rods and had bearing material in the oil.
Failure Notes: 63% of Non-Si engine failures occurred in hatchback models (mostly attributed to weaker rods). Only 3 off the shelf tuned cars have had failures. Only 1 car had a failure running a no bolt on setup. The Si failure rate is only 1.2%: engine (3); transmission (1). Non-Si 1.5T models have the most failures: engine (9); transmission (5).
Lesser Issues: There's been issues reported here and there with the stock clutch, CVT, some injector replacements and occasional fuel trim and knock control funkiness (depending on intake and gas used). There was one failed aftermarket turbo (W1). None of these issues were catastrophic.
Observations: From the thread data so far, running an OTS tune with no added bolt ons appears to be the safest setup. Properly tuned, adding bolt ons can be fairly reliable, too. The issues seem to happen most often when power output is pushed too high, owners attempt to self-tune too aggressively, or there is some abuse or neglect involved.
I often hear people say "it's a waste to tune a 1.5T CVT Civic". The idea being that the CVT can't handle high power. This video of a John Vega tuned Touring sedan might change that point of view. The fact is, a higher power tuned CVT can be reliable (limiting torque down low is key).
Updates: Since this is an ongoing experience and reliability thread, please add a new post from time to time. Use that new post to show additional tuned miles driven, changes to your tune or mod setup, any issues that occur and any new tuning experience notes. Update with a new post only. Don't edit and overwrite your original post.
Datalogs: As a thank you for having added your car here, I'll gladly read your datalogs (Hondata or KTuner). Just put them in a .zip file and make sure the KTuner logs are in .kdlg format only.
Summary: There is no doubt that a tune is the single best power-based performance modification. Having said that, tuning does add additional stress so be mindful of that. Long term reliability can be compromised if you tune for ultimate power on stock internals or abuse your ride. Do proper and timely maintenance, use common sense and your tuning experience should go well. - gtman
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