Three Questions for Those Who Track/Compete with their Type Rs

Dave B

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I am an experienced competitor in the Ontario Time-Attack series but will be new to the Type R for next year. The car will be basically bone stock except for improved camber, brake pads, tires and wheels. I have a few questions for those who compete with their cars, not just HPDE although you are welcome to chime in. The car needs to stay street legal and at this stage, will be on stock springs and shocks.

1) With stock springs, what sort of camber are you running with 200 UTQG tires such as RE-71Rs or Yoko A052s? The Hardrace all joints have already been ordered.

2) What rear brake pads do you run? I am comfortable with my choice of front pads and am a firm believer that the rear should not be the same compound given the greater weight transfer that occurs with better tires. In some previous cars, I have just used stock OEM rears but feel that a minor upgrade would be good.

3) Probably most important, what sort of RPM do you shift at for max performance? 2 of the tracks I frequent will likely need a shift at the end of the fastest straight (I already know that at least 1 will) and the question becomes, is it worthwhile to run to the limiter to avoid another shift up and then down again or should I just shift earlier?. I don't like running up to the rev limiter and it seems the stock motor starts to drop in power after 6300 to 6500. BTW, the rev limiter cuts in at 7000 doesn't it? Fortunately the torque peak is significantly lower so the power band is pretty wide. The other issue that complicates this is the diameter of the tires I finally decide on and how fast I can get out of the preceding corner.





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haltamer

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Personally, I'm an advocate for same pads front to rear to ensure perfect balance of braking force, however, if you'd rather not go down that route, I'd suggest (Especially if you're running with VSA / VSA FULLY OFF - Aka agile handling assist operational) going for a more endurance biased pad so you don't burn through them too quickly.

Interestingly; The factory shift lights on the FK8 (At the top of the cluster) are tuned to give you optimum shift points by gear - There's a specific table of RPM's given in the service manual:
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Peak torque is avaliable from 2500RPM as long as the turbo is up and running, so I'd suggest going long for maximum performance - Work the turbo for the torque is the way to go!

As you rightly say, power dropoff occurs at ~6500ish. Fuel cut rev limit is at 7100RPM.
 
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Dave B

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I had always heard that the best performance is achieved by keeping the engine between the torque peak and the HP peak in which case, there really isn't any gain by going over 6500 RPM. OTOH, it takes time to make the 4th to 5th or 5th to 6th gear shift, so running up to 7000 might be worthwhile. Certainly in my previous track car, a C5 Z06 Corvette, at Mosport (Canadian Tire Motorsport Park to newbies), data logging showed there was no net gain in top speed by going to 5th gear at the end of the straight with most size tires and often a net loss compared to sitting at the rev limiter for 1-2 seconds. FYI top speeds with that car varied from 226 to 234 kmh or 140-145mph. Best top speed was with a taller tire and being able to stay in 4th gear.

I think the issue is that as the speed of a vehicle goes up, the engine needs to maximize power to fight wind resistance which shifts the balance of performance more to all out power than torque.

We will have to disagree about brake pads. My experience with using the same pads front to back is that once the pads warm up, there is way too much rear bias. The OEM balance is set up predicated on a certain level of tire grip. Using a higher performance tire means there is more weight transfer to the front and less work is done by the rear brakes than originally requested OEM. The issue is that the rear brakes temps are going to still get pretty high with track use and are likely going to cook and overheat OEM pads very quickly. Finding the right balance of front to rear pads can be quite a chore. Personally I really like Raybestos ST43 pads for front use but they were WAY too much for the rears of my Corvette so I need a rear pad that handles higher heat than OEM but not at that level of torque or initial bite. Don't really care about dusting etc.
 

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1. Max camber allowed by removing guide pins. I’m at -1.7, -1.8 fronts. Lowered on Swift Springs.

2. Running same pads front + rear for better consistency. This car eats OEM rear pads, even with VSA fully off. Using Project Mu Club Racers. Excellent pad.

3. Usually shift around 6500, sometimes rev it right up to redline, all depends on the corner and next braking/shifting point.
 

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1. You want as much camber as possible with this car especially on a tire like the yoko or RE71R. These tires love camber. Aim for -2 to -3 degrees up front.

2. Check out the pads from Paragon Brakes. I'd recommend the R5 and R7 compounds. Match them front to rear. Independent testing has shown that the R5 rear pads added an extra .2g in braking compared to OEM. Paragon also have nice 2 piece rotor upgrades as well.

https://paragonbrakes.com/paragon-pbp370-brake-pads/

3. It depends on the track and corner really but usually I upshift around 6500 since there isn't much to be gained passed that.
 
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Dave B

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Yes, thanks Lust. I have already purchased a set of Paragon rotors and R5 fronts but haven't had a chance to use them yet.

Hawk has produced a chart of the temps their pads work at Here. Personally in the past I have used Black, Blue, HT10, HT14, HP+, HPS and DTC 60 in both front and rear positions. HPS can't stand up to even light use at the rear, Blues destroy rotors and I absolutely hate the high initial bite of DTC 60s when used on the front. Talk about an on/off switch. I dunno, maybe DTC 30s for the rear??

Has anyone looked at brake temps immediately after a track session?
 

Eugene_Fk8

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The brake gets really hot if you push it hard enough. Doesn't have a thermometer so i can't really know the temp, but you do feels the brake is softer after 7-9 laps I got a R5 compound also(depends on track too). I usually do a quick cool down lap after I feel the brake is a bit softer.

Don't worry too much about temp, your feet will tell you when to cool down.
 
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Dave B

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I have had the car at a track with just stock pads and was quite impressed by just how well the fronts worked. OTOH, wear was huge at the front (not the rear as I ran with all the nannies off) but had an interesting issue that after sitting for a short time after coming off the track, the pedal went quite soft but came back after driving around a bit and allowing the brakes to cool. Felt to me like a brake fluid issue that got too hot with heat soaking without any air circulation. It might be the pad but I will definitely be changing the brake fluid to my favourite, Castrol SRF.
 

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Hawk has produced a chart of the temps their pads work at Here. Personally in the past I have used Black, Blue, HT10, HT14, HP+, HPS and DTC 60 in both front and rear positions. HPS can't stand up to even light use at the rear, Blues destroy rotors and I absolutely hate the high initial bite of DTC 60s when used on the front. Talk about an on/off switch. I dunno, maybe DTC 30s for the rear??

Has anyone looked at brake temps immediately after a track session?
I had DTC-60s all round on an STi and yep the initial bite was savage to the point you needed to be running Rs as they easily found the limit of street tyres .

I know a lot of people who rate the HT10. Not as much bite as the DTC-60 or higher but can stand a lot more temp than anything below them including the DTC-30.
 
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Dave B

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I think sometimes people think high initial bite is great but as you say, you need tires that can use that. Meanwhile with high initial bite it becomes more difficult to modulate the pedal.

I would have thought HT 10s might be a bit much for the rears. I will be trying the Paragon R5 (which I believe is the Winmax 5 pad) up front and will have to learn that pad first before seeing about the rears.
 

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