Suspension setup discussion for the track

[Tomek]

If I'm not mistaken, additional negative camber would further exacerbate the negative effect on scrub radius. The stock +60 is more "sunken-in" than a +45. With additional negative camber, the center line of the wheel/contact patch is being pushed out more, further from the intersection of the strut. So I think it would lead to more positive scrub radius, based on this pic? Again, I don't know that much about this stuff and may have this all backwards lol, but it's really not something I'd be worried about. Minimizing torque steer isn't a huge priority.

https://twstatic.net/attachments/scrubradius-png.2584738/

Agreed. I guess it is more of a curiosity on my part over anything.

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[Dave B]

Just had mine aligned and corner balanced yesterday. Specs further down below for anyone interested / curious.

Re: Hard Race Ball Joint Install.

I'm primarily used to working on double wishbone Hondas in addition to my old EP3 (which at the time I thought was also a pain relative to the tinker toy nature of 90's Hondas) so my frame of reference might be a bit skewed. This car with the dual axis front suspension, while an impressive engineering marvel, I thought was a pain.

Did the install with some very patient buddies at the same time as the coilovers and popping the balljoint was a challenge as the harbor freight tool we used did not easily fit around the balljoint. (https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html).

We eventually modified the tool a bit to make it wider in order to fit around the joint without tearing the boot (in lieu of just saying F* it and using a BFH) but I would make sure that if you take this on yourself, that you are ready to manage any possible struggles with this unless you already have a comfort level with the ball joints on this car.

Perhaps another similar non-harbor freight separator tool in may fit better? Buttoning everything back up took some effort as well just due to how tight the clearances are but once we got through one side, the other went much smoother. Like anything, probably one of those things that once you get through it once and figure out a process, it gets easier.

With all that said, the Hard Race Ball joints themselves are nice and in my mind totally worth it if you want to do things "right" with this car when modifying the factory suspension and moving away from the factory wheel setup all while trying to keep the overall geometry as happy as possible.


Alignment:

Toe: 0 Front, 0 Rear
Camber front: -3.1 L and R
Camber rear: -2.0 L and R
Caster front: 7.5 L, 7.8R

Corner Weights:

Left Front: 1,022 lbs (w/ driver)
Right Front: 956 lbs
Left Rear: 648 lbs
Right Rear: 607 lbs

Cross Weights

Right Front + Left Rear: 1,604 lbs
Left Front + Right Rear: 1,630 lbs
Cross Weight Percentage: 50.4%

Curb Weight:

3,233 lbs

Tires/Wheels (square):

Yokohama A052's 265/35/18
18x9.5 +45 Volk TE37's

Tire pressures: (factory cold pressures)

35 Front
33 Rear

Suspension Setup

HKS Hipermax IV SP Coilovers
Hard Race Front Lower Ball Joints (configured to the 'B' Setting)
SPC Rear Camber Arms

Interesting that you got Neg 3 .1 camber with just the B setting for the new ball joints. Do you have any idea of how much more neg camber you got from the lowering alone?

 

[ApexEight]

Interesting that you got Neg 3 .1 camber with just the B setting for the new ball joints. Do you have any idea of how much more neg camber you got from the lowering alone?

Stock height guys are getting around -2.7 up front with B position Hardrace joints and pins removed.

 

[finch_first]

Just wanted to start a discussion to talk about suspension setup for the track. Provide your overall handling impressions given your setup. I can start.

Alignment:
Toe: 0 F, 0 R
Camber: -1.6 F, -1.5 R
Caster: Factory

Tires/wheels:
18x8.5 +55
245/40/18 Potenza S007A

Tire pressures (hot):
35F, 38R

All factory springs, dampers, stabilizer bars, etc.

The goal isn't for the fastest lap time. Just trying to achieve a more balanced car and continue to develop better car handling skills. As I build more confidence, I can move away from a less understeering setup and into a more neutral setup.

Front tire roll over is right at the small triangle. Rears aren't rolling over at all. Minimal understeer. Rear never stepped out.

I think I'll try 35f and 40r (hot) tire pressures next time to see if I can get the car to rotate even easier.

In the future, may consider the EVS slotted front ball joints to get -2.7 front camber. Generally, I don't like tweaking too many things at the same time as it's difficult to determine what worked and didn't work.

Alignment:
Toe: 1/16 each side F, 0 R
Camber: -3.5F, -2.4R. (Lower ball joint) (camber arms)
Caster: Castrol is impressive from factory thank you Honda

will be Changing this set up this weekend to be 3deg camber front and rear and toe in the rear

Tires/wheels:
18x9.5 +38 I think
265/35/18 A052 for time attack
265/35/18 40twr zestino slicks for open lapping days
Tire pressures (hot):
To many variables to even start trying to post pressures
All factory springs, dampers, stabilizer bars, etc.

My goal is to win time attack at my local track this year with also having fastest lap over all In A front wheel drive. Tuff competition as lots of very experienced drivers with type R


Front Is to much camber @3.5 deg we are hoping 3 is perfect.

A052 is absolutely amazing tire.

also trying a staggered set up with the oem rims pzero 255/35/20 front and 245/35/20 rear wow was this fun to play with yesterday. no issue of rubbing and I run curbs where needed on our track

next event is sep18 will return with more feed back as I am looking to have the car rotation be very eager at turn in.

cant complain right now car is very fast just trying toget the set up right for my driving style.

always on befall dance nothing but. Car is 2 seconds slower a lap with outpedal dance also just kills your rear pads.
good luck ladies and gentlemen keep it shiny side up

 

[finch_first]

Interesting that you got Neg 3 .1 camber with just the B setting for the new ball joints. Do you have any idea of how much more neg camber you got from the lowering alone?

I maxed out at 3.98 on my lower ball joints

 

[wstaab]

Track video. 2020 Type R. Spoon progressive springs. Michelin Pilot® Sport 4 S, 265/30/19.
Amazing grip for a 300 treadwear street tire. Car was very flat with little body roll with progressive springs and performance street alignment. Very neutral handling.

 

[finch_first]

Track video. 2020 Type R. Spoon progressive springs. Michelin Pilot® Sport 4 S, 265/30/19.
Amazing grip for a 300 treadwear street tire. Car was very flat with little body roll with progressive springs and performance street alignment. Very neutral handling.

Type for your post. These prints are what I am looking at for next season

 

[Jotun]

Alignment:
Toe: 1/16 each side F, 0 R
Camber: -3.5F, -2.4R. (Lower ball joint) (camber arms)
Caster: Castrol is impressive from factory thank you Honda

will be Changing this set up this weekend to be 3deg camber front and rear and toe in the rear

I am about to install a bunch of similar goodies on my currently OEM R for the track and was also think of just running a squared -3 camber set up. How did your A052's like the -3.5 up front? I noticed there is some pinch on the 9.5 wheel so I was thinking the more camber the better.

 

[finch_first]

I am about to install a bunch of similar goodies on my currently OEM R for the track and was also think of just running a squared -3 camber set up. How did your A052's like the -3.5 up front? I noticed there is some pinch on the 9.5 wheel so I was thinking the more camber the better.

A052’s love camber
3.5 is to much on my case 3deg everywhere is going to give me perfect tyre were 3.5 is good just got to be more careful with braking. when coming out of low speed corners got to really feel for wheel spin 3 egg will be more appropriate I think

 

[Jotun]

A052’s love camber
3.5 is to much on my case 3deg everywhere is going to give me perfect tyre were 3.5 is good just got to be more careful with braking. when coming out of low speed corners got to really feel for wheel spin 3 egg will be more appropriate I think

That makes sense. Sounds like with the 265 A052, -3 is a sweet spot for FWD then. Gotta remember to think about that straight line acceleration and braking grip.

 

[finch_first]

That makes sense. Sounds like with the 265 A052, -3 is a sweet spot for FWD then. Gotta remember to think about that straight line acceleration and braking grip.

Braking it was an easy thing to deal with I’m braking Carly late now and deep almost to the apex In some corners. Just made me
Faster lol love the way this car rotates. But the acceleration is really where the loss is on slicks this is even more of a problem having wheel spin outta the corner. Obviously less input is required but we fee the right route is sq3deg

 

[Jotun]

Braking it was an easy thing to deal with I’m braking Carly late now and deep almost to the apex In some corners. Just made me
Faster lol love the way this car rotates. But the acceleration is really where the loss is on slicks this is even more of a problem having wheel spin outta the corner. Obviously less input is required but we fee the right route is sq3deg

? I am going to start at that spec then and tweak as it fits my driving style. Going from a RWD track car to a FWD, I can’t wait to feel the differences

 

[finch_first]

? I am going to start at that spec then and tweak as it fits my driving style. Going from a RWD track car to a FWD, I can’t wait to feel the differences

This car is very tail happy
Be sure to run pedal dance or you will run slower and go through rear pads like crazy

 

[Jotun]

This car is very tail happy
Be sure to run pedal dance or you will run slower and go through rear pads like crazy

I noticed it this weekend on a very tight road outside of Austin in OEM trim. I’m definitely going to see what I can do to make it more neutral. (Pressures, alignment)

 

[finch_first]

I noticed it this weekend on a very tight road outside of Austin in OEM trim. I’m definitely going to see what I can do to make it more neutral. (Pressures, alignment)

Mmm I wouldn’t want it to neutral my self
Need the car to rotate and that tail being happy gives you just that

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