Civic AC heading for lawsuit?

[zroger73]

^ Since when did Honda dealerships start rebuilding A/C compressors? There's certainly no instructions in the service information on how to rebuild A/C compressors!

Also, the list price on a brand new compressor is $648.25. 16 oz. of R1234yf refrigerant retails for about $70. The $500 they're asking for will cover the cost of the parts and then some.

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[CharlyWingate]

Damn this is a good eye opener

 

[SCOPESYS]

Hey everyone, Our 2016 EX-T started having an intermittent a/c not blowing cold. We took it in yesterday, July 1st, with 37K miles and the dealer completed two recalls. Replace engine oil without replacing filter, clear any DTCs, and update the PGM-FI, TCM, and A/C control unit software. Reset the throttle position learned values, and do the PCM idle learn procedure. My wife went to pick up the car and the A/C blew hot for over 10 minutes. Back into the shop....the told us the compressor was "bad" and wanted $1800.00.....I said, I don't think so, it is only 1K miles out of warranty. I called Honda USA and the dealership contacted the Honda rep for the area. They charged us $121.00 to complete the diagnostic....still not sure what they did. The dealership called today and said that Honda told them they would pay $1300.00 and that we would owe $500.00. We drove it today and it works fine....it is 91 degrees F outside.... When they called I asked if they are ordering a new compressor and they said no a rebuild kit. I asked, these rebuild kits cost $1800.00? Is the dealership ripping me off? Something seems off given what I have read on here and given the situations? Thoughts anyone?

The re-built item seems to be a commonly used item in many warranty situations, not just Honda Civic cars.
I believe it works like this.

You buy a new product (Honda civic in this case) and it has installed a factory New A/C Compressor.
IF the A/C compressor fails during the warranty period, the warranty is to replace the Compressor with a working compressor that is intended to work as well as the new factory original one... but this does not mean that you get a Factory NEW compressor .. just a compressor that functions as they are intended, (ie Re-Built), which is now warrantied for the remaining warranty time of the original compressor.
In fairness to Honda, they are replacing your FAILED Compressor with a working one, that has the same warranty remaining time as the original... It does not need to be shiny new .. (your old one is not by now) -- it just has to WORK.

More of a concern should be, why did the original compressor fail in the first place (if indeed it did !!!,) and it was not just refrigerant leakage cause by something else), and even more importantly, what can be done to stop the same failure from happening
again.

Stones and road debris striking the exposed A/C Condenser seem to be the a common Honda A/C system issue , but unless something is done to help protect the new Condenser, chances are the new one will get damaged in the same way... either sooner, or later when the A/C is no longer under warranty.

My 2018 Si is now 9 months old, and the Condenser shows absolutely no sights of physical damage .. just a few squashed flies sticking to it .. so I intend to fit my own constructed mesh grill in front of the condenser,(like some others have done) to act as a shield for flying stones, etc, in the hope of never getting my condenser damaged by road debris.

Screw the warranty, if I protect it, it should never get damaged, and need to be replaced under or out of warranty, and if it does get damaged, the protective grill was "Never fitted" -- what protective grill ??

During the warranty period, I do expect the refrigerant level to "maybe" drop a little, and if it does, I will just re-fill it (correctly, using the correct equipment, and get on with life).

If there is a drastic A/C failure that needs to be addressed under warranty, then once again... refill what with what ?, do not know what you are talking about.?

The Dealer does not have the Monopoly on S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G the truth !!!

Finally, to answer your question "Is the dealership ripping me off?"
In far too many cases , it their mouth is moving, they are lying and ripping you off !!!
(or just feeding you a line of BS to get rid of you and not get to the real bottom of the issue, let alone a satisfactory, lasting solution)

Dealers, Insurance Companies, and Banks are NOT your Friend .. they are there to make money, and YOU are that source of income !!!
Welcome to the REAL WORLD !!

 

[silverblip]

 

[fuhongl]

My dealer told me my condenser needs to be replaced. I have been to dealer three times, the first two times they replaced two separate hoses. Now it seems the condenser is the problem.
amazingly, they were able to quickly reach out to Honda and had them agree to pay all the cost, I only pay $25.
I can't believe.
I signed up a class action case a month ago toward Honda civic AC problem.
even they can fix me this time, which I really have no confidence any more, I am going to sue Honda, for all the trouble, time, frustration, confusion that the f*king AC caused me.

 

[Luckystrike2468]

^ Since when did Honda dealerships start rebuilding A/C compressors? There's certainly no instructions in the service information on how to rebuild A/C compressors!

Also, the list price on a brand new compressor is $648.25. 16 oz. of R1234yf refrigerant retails for about $70. The $500 they're asking for will cover the cost of the parts and then some.

Thanks! That actually makes me feel better since I will be into them for $621.00 total. I have found in the past that what the desk representative tells you about what they have to order and what the technician orders are usually two different things. The desk rep said something like, new shaft, "O" rings etc...in this kit they are ordering but who knows.

What bothers me is, we had a CRV that the compressor stopped working and once it stopped ….that was it....no A/C. This situations seems different. Maybe the compressor clutch is choosing not to work intermittently and the rebuild kit is for it.....?

 

[Luckystrike2468]

My dealer told me my condenser needs to be replaced. I have been to dealer three times, the first two times they replaced two separate hoses. Now it seems the condenser is the problem.
amazingly, they were able to quickly reach out to Honda and had them agree to pay all the cost, I only pay $25.
I can't believe.
I signed up a class action case a month ago toward Honda civic AC problem.
even they can fix me this time, which I really have no confidence any more, I am going to sue Honda, for all the trouble, time, frustration, confusion that the f*king AC caused me.

Thanks. Makes me question the reliability of what I bought....but it is one piece of equipment among many sourced from the an outside vendor. If the manufacturer is running an ISO system for QMS you would think they would be auditing themselves at Honda's request. Seems like every Honda model is having an issue with A/C …..not just Civics.
What is the link to the class action law suit?

 

[Luckystrike2468]

The re-built item seems to be a commonly used item in many warranty situations, not just Honda Civic cars.
I believe it works like this.

You buy a new product (Honda civic in this case) and it has installed a factory New A/C Compressor.
IF the A/C compressor fails during the warranty period, the warranty is to replace the Compressor with a working compressor that is intended to work as well as the new factory original one... but this does not mean that you get a Factory NEW compressor .. just a compressor that functions as they are intended, (ie Re-Built), which is now warrantied for the remaining warranty time of the original compressor.
In fairness to Honda, they are replacing your FAILED Compressor with a working one, that has the same warranty remaining time as the original... It does not need to be shiny new .. (your old one is not by now) -- it just has to WORK.

More of a concern should be, why did the original compressor fail in the first place (if indeed it did !!!,) and it was not just refrigerant leakage cause by something else), and even more importantly, what can be done to stop the same failure from happening
again.

Stones and road debris striking the exposed A/C Condenser seem to be the a common Honda A/C system issue , but unless something is done to help protect the new Condenser, chances are the new one will get damaged in the same way... either sooner, or later when the A/C is no longer under warranty.

My 2018 Si is now 9 months old, and the Condenser shows absolutely no sights of physical damage .. just a few squashed flies sticking to it .. so I intend to fit my own constructed mesh grill in front of the condenser,(like some others have done) to act as a shield for flying stones, etc, in the hope of never getting my condenser damaged by road debris.

Screw the warranty, if I protect it, it should never get damaged, and need to be replaced under or out of warranty, and if it does get damaged, the protective grill was "Never fitted" -- what protective grill ??

I get the feeling that parts are being replaced because they can't really give a definite answer. Or is that where the 'decision tree' leads them? This is happening so replace...."X". I will ask more questions when they call and set up the appointment......We have driven the Civic 3 times since yesterday and the A/C has worked flawlessly.....

During the warranty period, I do expect the refrigerant level to "maybe" drop a little, and if it does, I will just re-fill it (correctly, using the correct equipment, and get on with life).

If there is a drastic A/C failure that needs to be addressed under warranty, then once again... refill what with what ?, do not know what you are talking about.?

The Dealer does not have the Monopoly on S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G the truth !!!

Finally, to answer your question "Is the dealership ripping me off?"
In far too many cases , it their mouth is moving, they are lying and ripping you off !!!
(or just feeding you a line of BS to get rid of you and not get to the real bottom of the issue, let alone a satisfactory, lasting solution)

Dealers, Insurance Companies, and Banks are NOT your Friend .. they are there to make money, and YOU are that source of income !!!
Welcome to the REAL WORLD !!

 

[SCOPESYS]

Thanks! That actually makes me feel better since I will be into them for $621.00 total. I have found in the past that what the desk representative tells you about what they have to order and what the technician orders are usually two different things. The desk rep said something like, new shaft, "O" rings etc...in this kit they are ordering but who knows.

What bothers me is, we had a CRV that the compressor stopped working and once it stopped ….that was it....no A/C. This situations seems different. Maybe the compressor clutch is choosing not to work intermittently and the rebuild kit is for it.....?

IF they are going to take the A/C system apart, it's correct that they should fit NEW seals when re-assembling, the last thing anyone wants are old used seals leaking away all that newly charged "Expensive" Refrigerant.

Seals are cheap, Refrigerant & Labor are through the roof.

Not 100% sure about the GenX Civics, but most cars have a refrigerant Pressure switch, so if the refrigerant has leaked and now has a low level, resulting in a low refrigerant pressure , the Clutch will not engage, and attempt to run the compressor with damaging low refrigerant levels.

What the Honda Desk Rep tells you is whatever they want to tell you--- they are typically not techs, they are there to push sales for the Service Department and will even admit if pushed that they are not Techs, and therefore cannot give you "Technical" information or advise, or if they do, since they are not techs, they are not always going to be "Accurate" ( There -- I put that Nicely , I avoided saying BS !! )

 

[Luckystrike2468]

IF they are going to take the A/C system apart, it's correct that they should fit NEW seals when re-assembling, the last thing anyone wants are old used seals leaking away all that newly charged "Expensive" Refrigerant.

Seals are cheap, Refrigerant & Labor are through the roof.

Not 100% sure about the GenX Civics, but most cars have a refrigerant Pressure switch, so if the refrigerant has leaked and now has a low level, resulting in a low refrigerant pressure , the Clutch will not engage, and attempt to run the compressor with damaging low refrigerant levels.

What the Honda Desk Rep tells you is whatever they want to tell you--- they are typically not techs, they are there to push sales for the Service Department and will even admit if pushed that they are not Techs, and therefore cannot give you "Technical" information or advise, or if they do, since they are not techs, they are not always going to be "Accurate" ( There -- I put that Nicely , I avoided saying BS !! )

Exactly, I think I scared Desk Rep half to death when I said....I will call Honda USA first.... and to compare.....when my 2002 CRV compressor detonated at 86K miles, they quoted me a repair of $2200.00 in 2010. The Desk Rep called Honda himself and Honda paid for the repair.... This is not the same situation, I could tell by the way they told me about the compressor, and asking me if I had an extended warranty, that they were used to dealing with this issue. Honda is not picking up the bill for this because it would get expensive for them very quickly given the sheer number involved. I will dig a little further into the refrigerant issue too. From what I have read so far, it does not look promising. Might be the root cause....

 

[SCOPESYS]

Just took a Picture of the 2018 SI Condenser.. after 9 months.

Apart from a few squashed flys that have accumulated since the last wash, the fins appear to be in Perfect condition, but it does look very Light and fragile !!

By Comparison, my 32 year old Maxima Condenser (That has never leaked)
Its quite Beaten up, but looks to be a lot more robust and stronger than the Honda part.

It is a lot HEAVIER .. the Honda condenser looks like it has be "optimized" for Minimum weight !!

"They don't build them to last like they use to ".

I am going to protect the SI's Condenser with an addon SCREEN, "BEFORE" it gets damaged !!

 

[Gruber]

Be thankful you weren't charged for refrigerant since it's only supposed to be covered for 2 years or 24,000 miles unless required as part of a repair that is covered by the 3/36 or extended warranties.

Freon is a trademark of DuPont/Chemours that was used when marketing R-12. Automobiles haven't use Freon (or "FREE ON" according to the dealer employee) since 1993. The proper term is "refrigerant".

All refrigerants containing fluorine are commonly called freons. Actually, for the original ones "free-on" would be a great name, because they were cheap, practically free, compared with the new inventions.
All the issues with auto AC are caused by the efforts to quickly create new systems that are efficient, light, don't make ozone holes and don't cause global warming. That's the reason for thin and flimsy condensers, new refrigerants, new lubricants, and complex, untested variable compressors. It just can't be figured out in several years. Honda owners paying for AC repairs and suffering in the heat should not complain, but instead be proud, because their suffering helps fund the Earth-friendly new technology. But some people only like to save the Earth when it doesn't cost them anything....

 

[frontlinegeek]

Hey everyone, Our 2016 EX-T started having an intermittent a/c not blowing cold.

OK, so for whatever crazy reason, the AC system in the turbo Civic and CRV is intimately intertwined to the extent that it can even let gas tainted oil smells into the cabin of the vehicle. I have no idea how this is all hooked up/accomplished but I do know that at one point in the recall/TSB/CYA, they were replacing components relating to the compressors and then, they switched to a firmware only update.

That being said, there are so many damned computers and subprocessors in cars these days that if there was a major reset of everything, it is well possible that it could have taken a few dozen miles for it to learn its up from its down. If the AC is working now, they will likely try to bilk you to the max for replacing it. The main body of the compressor lists for only $648 MSRP on HondaPartsNow. The clutch assembly is superseded and they don't have the new one listed so can't tell you the price for that. Needless to say, sounds like some excessive pricing going on unless there is some insane labor to do the work. And it wouldn't shock me. The enginerds would likely put the least replaced things in the least accessible parts of the engine bay.

All I know is so far, not feeling so silly for only getting an EX with the 2.0NA. I might be missing out on the power but I don't seem to be missing out on the no stupid GDI issues (Because really, this whole oil dilution issue and related isn't a turbo issue but a GDI issue).

 

[frontlinegeek]

But some people only like to save the Earth when it doesn't cost them anything....

Comically, the best ways to save the environment SHOULD cost you nothing! Use less energy, consume less stuff...

 

[frontlinegeek]

It is a lot HEAVIER .. the Honda condenser looks like it has be "optimized" for Minimum weight !!

I believe it! The whole damned car was put on a diet! The Civic got dimensionally massive compared to all the previous generations and yet, hardly changed curb weight at all!

2017 EX w/sensing sedan: 2799 lbs
2012 EX sedan: 2787 lbs
2006 EX sedan: 2804 lbs
2001 EX sedan: 2615 lbs

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