HONDA EARTH DREAMS ENGINE LAWSUIT FILED FOR CR-VS AND CIVICS

[CVCTURBO]

Checked my oil today, car has 6k miles. Oil was changed at 3k miles and my oil smells like a damn 2 stroke engine! Keep in mind I drive 75 MILES ONE WAY to work!
This is concerning

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[SCOPESYS]

I am still waiting to see some actual NUMBERS !!

Yes, Oil Dilution is an inherent characteristic of these types of motor, and as fuel gets down and mixes with the oil, so the oil level goes up.

So, how high can it rise on the Dipstick, before the concentration gets to a point where the Oil dilution is degrading the oil enough to warrant changing it.

(Does not help that even with 50 miles on the car, the oil level could be anywhere... the accuracy that the factory puts oil into the car seems to vary enormously.)

From day 1, with only 50 mile on the car, my oil level was past the Upper Full Mark.

So, the advertised hype about only needing an oil change every 10,000 miles may not be so realistic ... so just change the oil more often, (say 3000 miles) and get on with life.

If you do it yourself the cost of every 3000 miles yourself is about the same as every 10,000 miles with the dealer doing it.

You also:
(a) Get to see the old oil yourself.
(b) Get to see that a new Filter is Fitted.
(c) Get to see that a new crush washer is fitted.
(d) Get to ensure that the oil is filled to the correct level, so you can see if it is later changing.
(e) Get to torque the drain plug to the correct torque.
(f) Get to make sure that all the bolts and fasteners are correctly replaced.
(g) Get to check over the underside of the car.
(h) Get some exercise.
(i) Get to get your hands dirty if you don't wear latex gloves !!
(j) Get to save time, as you can do it far faster, than taking it to a dealer and waiting while they mess about, doing whatever, and potentially screwing up something else on the car.


I hear reports of some with Massive Oil dilution... which does indicate that there is something else wrong, but that does not seem to be the norm... at least I know that I do not have Massive Oil dilution.

Yes, I can smell gas in the oil, but really, that is to be expected... it's all a matter of how much ... hence my original, what I hope, is a simple question.

"How may mm rise in oil level is acceptable before the oil need to be changed, and what is that mm measurement in terms of %Fuel in the Oil ??

And yes, it would also help if the Civic had a better, more readable Dip Stick !!!
But that's a whole other "rant" Thread !!

 

[REBELXSi]

If you do it yourself the cost of every 3000 miles yourself is about the same as every 10,000 miles with the dealer doing it.

And yes, it would also help if the Civic had a better, more readable Dip Stick !!!
But that's a whole other "rant" Thread !!

Well that's not true. I mean, I don't know what the dealer is charging for an Si oil change these days but my oil is $25-27 for a 5 quart jug and the oil filter is $10 so thats nearly $40 per change. My maintenance minder usually hits 5% at well over 7,000 miles. If I was doing oil changes every 3000 miles, I'd be paying $400 a year for my own materials and labor. That's quite a lot of money. I might stop using the MM for oil changes though but I won't be going to 3k, maybe 5k? My oil was pretty dark when I changed my oil yesterday and it was at nearly 8k.

I definitely agree with you on the dip stick thing. Ours sucks so badly. My '07 Fit had the old style with the holes in the metal tip, not this ridiculous orange plastic tip thing, and that worked great.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Well that's not true. I mean, I don't know what the dealer is charging for an Si oil change these days but my oil is $25-27 for a 5 quart jug and the oil filter is $10 so thats nearly $40 per change. .

Also, maybe, just as significant, is not only what the dealer is charging for an oil change, but also what oil is actually being used.

Honda claim their Honda Oil is "ADEQUATE OIL" ?? maybe.. but then a Nissan Versa, @ $11,990. new is an ADEQUATE car, but would you really want to drive one if you had a choice

 

[rraayy3]

Aren’t there 10th gen civics with 100k miles on them and no issues?

 

[SCOPESYS]

Aren’t there 10th gen civics with 100k miles on them and no issues?

Probably, and they may even be all running "Adequately"

 

[Gruber]

Well that's not true. I mean, I don't know what the dealer is charging for an Si oil change these days but my oil is $25-27 for a 5 quart jug and the oil filter is $10 so thats nearly $40 per change. My maintenance minder usually hits 5% at well over 7,000 miles. If I was doing oil changes every 3000 miles, I'd be paying $400 a year for my own materials and labor. That's quite a lot of money.

Well, wait a moment.
You can’t squeeze 5 quarts of oil in the civic, only 3.7, so it is only less than $20, if you get a good full synthetic $26/5q oil such as Mobil 1. The Honda OEM filter can be bought for ~$4.
So the materials will be only $24 for a DIY oil change which is still better than dealer’s.

Then if you use Quaker State Extreme Durability full synthetic, you will pay less than $15 for the oil and the whole cost will be $19, still at least as good or better stuff as the dealer’s.

If you want to spend “almost $40” you are free to do so; it is easy to spend even more.

Btw. the washer price is some 50 cents or so. And if you only buy oil during sales, as I do, you will pay still less. E.g. the Mobil 1 full synthetic for below $23 and the QS below $18 for a 5q jug.

 

[REBELXSi]

Well, wait a moment.
You can’t squeeze 5 quarts of oil in the civic, only 3.7, so it is only less than $20, if you get a good full synthetic $26/5q oil such as Mobil 1. The Honda OEM filter can be bought for ~$4.
So the materials will be only $24 for a DIY oil change which is still better than dealer’s.

Then if you use Quaker State Extreme Durability full synthetic, you will pay less than $15 for the oil and the whole cost will be $19, still at least as good or better stuff as the dealer’s.

If you want to spend “almost $40” you are free to do so; it is easy to spend even more.

Btw. the washer price is some 50 cents or so.

Well, I buy Castrol Edge "Advance Full Synthetic GDI/Turbo Formula" for $27 for 5qts and I use 4qts so I have one left over each time so that means my 5th change comes from oil I have left over. I've only done 2 so far so I have 2qts left. I use the Mobile 110A filters which were about $60 for a 6 pack. I also switched to a Greddy magnetic drain plug on this change so there's that for the washer.

After my new calculation, it's about $32 per oil change.

 

[CivicChina]

I am still waiting to see some actual NUMBERS !!


So, how high can it rise on the Dipstick, before the concentration gets to a point where the Oil dilution is degrading the oil enough to warrant changing it.

Honda China in the first press release about the dilution stated that there is no risk for the engine up to 30mm over MAX and at 20mm over there is already a protection that alerts you on the dash and puts the engine on safe mode, in which case you must change the oil immediately.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Honda China in the first press release about the dilution stated that there is no risk for the engine up to 30mm over MAX and at 20mm over there is already a protection that alerts you on the dash and puts the engine on safe mode, in which case you must change the oil immediately.

So there is a mechanism where the car can detect the oil level ?

Where is that, and how does it work ?


We know that the Dip Stick level DROPS when the engine is started and runs, and starts pumping the oil around the system.
So the oil level is maximum when the engine has not been run for some time and the oil had run back into the crankcase.

With this in mind.

If there is an engine safety mode, when the oil is too high could this maybe activate when the car is being started, and the oil level hight. Then as the engine is cranked, the oil level drops, and after a time of cranking, the oil level drops enough to turn off the engine safety mode, and the car then will start.

ie Reason for some having the long Cranking time issue ?

ALL GUESSES on my part at the moment, but it might be a logical explanation for the Long Cranking issue ??

 

[Gruber]

All the described symptoms and the problem with fuel blow by are those of oil overfill, not oil dilution.
Oil overfill is bad for any engine that I know if it’s large enough. Frothy foamy oil just can’t pump and lubricate the engine properly. But I would expect the civic would run for a very long time and mileage even on a fifty-fifty oil-fuel mixture, provided its level was correct. The fear among the owners of oil being to thin to lubricate is exaggerated.

So the problem with the DI-related fuel “blow by,” compounded by insufficient oil temperature to evaporate it, is not really MOD (Massive Oil Dilution) but MOO (Massive Oil Overfill).

As a rule, an inch or 20 mm of oil over the top mark is a problem for most cars, while a quarter inch to 1 cm is never a problem. Still, overfilling by even the smallest amount by a shop is just sloppy work, unless the engine is known to consume oil. I routinely overfilled my older engines that burned/leaked some oil by several mm.

If you see any increase of the oil level, I would advise not using the ECON mode at all on any trips below 20 miles or so, at least during the winter weather. Actually, I’ll probably stop using it altogether. I used to use ECON until the engine warms up, but now I do exactly the opposite. Now the task of keeping the rpm at a moderate level until they engine warms up is on me.

 

[Gruber]

So there is a mechanism where the car can detect the oil level ?

Where is that, and how does it work ?

It doesn't detect oil level, but detects insufficient oil pressure because of oil “foaming.”

 

[nags]

is the Civic and CR-V 1.5t the exact same motor?

 

[dallasjhawk]

is the Civic and CR-V 1.5t the exact same motor?

yes, they are all l15b motors. with slight variations in turbo and internals, but the DI system is alike and thats what causes some dilution

 

[nags]

yes, they are all l15b motors. with slight variations in turbo and internals, but the DI system is alike and thats what causes some dilution

Thank you. Been trying to get a straight answer to this question for a week on Google.

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