Overheating at Track...Let me try this again!

[MadMage]

Yesterday, my stock CTR was faster than almost all the modified CTRs on the track (all but 1, and he left early because of the heat). Many/most of them had heat issues (mix of 17-19s and 20/21s). I did not.

So yes, I understand it in part is about how hard you run the car. But a lot of it is also about the mods. And, if a stock CTR can run faster than a power modified CTR, then, as far as track use, one should really consider why they want to modify.

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[NapalmEnema]

100% The harder you push the car, the more likely it will overheat. You can run 80% all day without overheating...

Yeah but you're assuming you have to beat the piss out of a car to get the most out of it - if you're just sitting there cooking it at redline 24/7 yes you will get heat problems (probably in any car) - If you drive the car hard, properly, and well, by and large the 2020+ models don't appear to suffer the same heat issues as the earlier versions. I took mine to the track, and pushed it hard, but it was cool out - so I didn't have an issue personally. But the guy is running his car, hard, on a track he knows, in Arizona. That has to count for something lol.

 

[NapalmEnema]

Yesterday, my stock CTR was faster than almost all the modified CTRs on the track (all but 1, and he left early because of the heat). Many/most of them had heat issues (mix of 17-19s and 20/21s). I did not.

So yes, I understand it in part is about how hard you run the car. But a lot of it is also about the mods. And, if a stock CTR can run faster than a power modified CTR, then, as far as track use, one should really consider why they want to modify.

Main reason I'm not modding as that = more heat = bad time at track is what I see. And I'm not motivated enough to start chasing heat issues on a car I modified, that is fast enough stock to just drive like a dream.

Support anyone modding whatever it's your car - but if you get heat issues when tracking - that may be the culprit / main cause. Personally I just find nothing to improve with this car - traction already an issue and it just feels balanced and nimble with the power level it does have. Prob keep mine stock for all time tbh.

 

[.grimace]

If you're not overheating the car in stock form you're not going fast enough.

It should overheat stock too if temps are 75-80 degrees +

 

[Dave B]

If you're not overheating the car in stock form you're not going fast enough.

It should overheat stock too if temps are 75-80 degrees +

Have to admit, I agree. My car is bone stock other than wheels, tires and alignment. Using LogR and some data recording either through a Garmin Catalyst or AiM Solo, it is clear the car gets hot and starts to pull power with increasing temps. Frustrating to see lap times increase and top speeds decrease with the more laps I run (and no, it is not the tire's fault). Just going to a single Trackspec vent mace a significant difference especially on ECTs although not so much oil temps but using LogR, I am not sure how accurate they are anyway. Next season (still got a friggin" Polar Vortex going on here), I have another OEM hood with the much larger and likely more effective Racelouver setup. I am hoping that the increase in effective cooling will decrease oil temps as well or else I will have to spring for an oil cooler and so far there seems to be little actual data on how effective they are, at least for the ones sitting in a wheel well. If the better venting allows consistent cooler ECTs, I might consider a tune ( I really would like one) but that might also require something like a PWR radiator.

 

[MadMage]

If you're not overheating the car in stock form you're not going fast enough.

It should overheat stock too if temps are 75-80 degrees +

*lol* Should I be insulted? As I said, I was faster stock than all the power modified Type R's. And temps were 90+F. I certainly wasn't beating on the car and risking going past the limit because going off-track was strongly frowned upon, But I certainly was running more than 8/10. As well, there was lots of clean air and a couple of long straights.

My car is bone stock other than wheels, tires and alignment. Using LogR and some data recording either through a Garmin Catalyst or AiM Solo, it is clear the car gets hot and starts to pull power with increasing temps. Frustrating to see lap times increase and top speeds decrease with the more laps I run (and no, it is not the tire's fault).

So here is perhaps a terminology thing. To me, "overheating" means limp mode, not pulling power. I don't know if I had power being pulled by the ECU, and since Track Addict wasn't giving me lap times, I don't know how my times were.

But, you can all go look for yourself on sessions 5&6 and see if you think I was going hard or not. (1-4 were intro and cooler out, 7 I was beat and was not going to push as hard as possible).

 

[.grimace]

It's not meant to be insulting just trying to get accurate info out there. Every time I have seen someone say "I'm stock and don't overheat" their lap times are far off what fast people set for lap times in a CTR.

Like I was at buttonwillow last weekend and I'm not even fast but was around a 2:01 - 2:02. I have seen people argue they don't overheat there and then their lap time is a 2:10- 2:20.....

I'm not saying I'm the fastest driver in the world but

1) you have a driving instructor teaching you the course still, thats a dead give away you have LOTS of time left once you learn the track

2) you are lifting and coasting into brake zones

Again I'm not trying to insult you but I know if you start tracking the car more and get more familiar with that track, start braking hard and pushing the car you will overheat it.

I just want to stop people saying "I tracked it and didn't overheat" when it's their first track day, way off pace, learning a new track, "faster" than other people whos lap times we don't know either.

 

[Dave B]

Yes, we may be confusing terms. I have yet to have my 2020 go into limp mode despite coolant temps of 230 and oil temps of 266 according to LogR. If that is the definition of overheating than I guess I have not overheated......yet. OTOH, I compete in the Ontario Time Attack series and losing power as quickly as I do on a hot day ruins my chances. I really want to keep ECT and IATs down so the car is making the maximal power with the stock tune before adding any change to the car. It seems like a waste to have a bunch more power for just a couple of laps and I don't really care about extra HP on the street. If the other tuned FK8s in your group are slower, they may well indeed be running at a much lower HP number than they got on the dyno, just because of "overheating". Mad Mage, certainly we agree that adding power only exacerbates the cooling issues of the car.

 

[dsm_mikey]

You are make great efforts out on the track! You are definitely making improvements out there and keep it up!

You are pushing the car in some spots and will progress quickly.

It is clear from the video, however, that you are a novice and thats okay. I am sure if you are learning that it feels like you are going 100%! No one is trying to dig on you because we have all been where you are.

It won't take long for you and you will experience what we all have on track. The car overheats stock no 2 ways about it. Disinformation is never good. I started this thread to help people fight this overheating battle! If you read through the thread you will see I overheated when 72 degrees out with just an upgraded radiator and a C&R intercooler. I have since removed the upgraded intercooler and went back to stock because it is thinner. For cooling mods I have a C&R race radiator and added large functional hood vents and that is keeping temps at bay so far. Power is still getting pulled, but the temp gauge needle isn't moving. I have no tune or other power mods.

Please don't take any of this personally. It is not my or others intention to dig on your driving ability. It is a skill you are learning and you will be up to speed in no time. If you continue your journey and keep learning you will experience this overheating problem as well. We are all here to help you with fixes for overheating when you need it! Seat time is where its at!!!

I seriously wish you the best!

*lol* Should I be insulted? As I said, I was faster stock than all the power modified Type R's. And temps were 90+F. I certainly wasn't beating on the car and risking going past the limit because going off-track was strongly frowned upon, But I certainly was running more than 8/10. As well, there was lots of clean air and a couple of long straights.

So here is perhaps a terminology thing. To me, "overheating" means limp mode, not pulling power. I don't know if I had power being pulled by the ECU, and since Track Addict wasn't giving me lap times, I don't know how my times were.

But, you can all go look for yourself on sessions 5&6 and see if you think I was going hard or not. (1-4 were intro and cooler out, 7 I was beat and was not going to push as hard as possible).

 

[AlphaDigital]

I managed to get the temp gauge to move pretty good at BIR here in MN on a 60 degree day. Im only on a Koyo and acuity setup, but that was after multiple sessions and getting more comfortable and pushing the car a bit more.

Im in a similar area as you, so well see how this year goes for me being modded. I think a few changes are probably gonna be in order though. The goal is to get back out onto BIR on both course setups and then probably black hawk farms in Beloit.

 

[NapalmEnema]

See, this is where things get 'off' to me. If you more seasoned track people can't be a bit circumspect and be open to adjusting some of your shifting style these conversations just devolve to he said she said. I still believe, that if you are driving at the limit and are just holding the gear / car at 6k constantly, you're going to have a bad time. You should be bouncing up there, but not sitting up there continuous as the powerband for these cars really is 100% close to 4-5k and then carries to redline. So my belief is there are different types of top end drivers. Those that are a bit harder on the car, those who are a bit more varied in their shifting and corner approaches / gearing etc..

So that's why I feel there are some that have heat issues, and some that don't, skills and speed being equal, and both pushing the car. One may just sit at redline too much and add heat where they don't need to as it's not adding power.

On someone that has overheated at the track and has video I'd love to see the shifting characteristics and overall RPM average. That would answer a lot of the speculative questions around the driver factor in assessing what contributes to heat issues for some and not others.

Interesting topic either way but so hard to land on something and say 'this is it' without more information / metrics imo.

 

[AlphaDigital]

I think its a hard thing to narrow down because there are too many factors to consider, but if guys like @Lust , Jepps, and @b2point0h are out on the coast tearing it up in Cali heat without problems there shouldnt be any reason why anyone else cant.

 

[.grimace]

See, this is where things get 'off' to me. If you more seasoned track people can't be a bit circumspect and be open to adjusting some of your shifting style these conversations just devolve to he said she said. I still believe, that if you are driving at the limit and are just holding the gear / car at 6k constantly, you're going to have a bad time. You should be bouncing up there, but not sitting up there continuous as the powerband for these cars really is 100% close to 4-5k and then carries to redline. So my belief is there are different types of top end drivers. Those that are a bit harder on the car, those who are a bit more varied in their shifting and corner approaches / gearing etc..

So that's why I feel there are some that have heat issues, and some that don't, skills and speed being equal, and both pushing the car. One may just sit at redline too much and add heat where they don't need to as it's not adding power.

On someone that has overheated at the track and has video I'd love to see the shifting characteristics and overall RPM average. That would answer a lot of the speculative questions around the driver factor in assessing what contributes to heat issues for some and not others.

Interesting topic either way but so hard to land on something and say 'this is it' without more information / metrics imo.

If you've ever driven on a track you'd know you rarely if ever just sit at 6k RPM. unless going through a sweeper or something you aren't just chilling at a static RPM. I'm also not going to shift at 5500-6000 RPM to try to solve the issue. That isn't solving it

 

[dsm_mikey]

1000%

If you've ever driven on a track you'd know you rarely if ever just sit at 6k RPM. unless going through a sweeper or something you aren't just chilling at a static RPM. I'm also not going to shift at 5500-6000 RPM to try to solve the issue. That isn't solving it

 

[NapalmEnema]

If you've ever driven on a track you'd know you rarely if ever just sit at 6k RPM. unless going through a sweeper or something you aren't just chilling at a static RPM. I'm also not going to shift at 5500-6000 RPM to try to solve the issue. That isn't solving it

Wasn't what I was suggesting but nvmd this gets too prickly discussing.

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