REDRAGN's Countdown to Super Lap Battle 2024!!!

[REDRAGN]

@REDRAGN I called RV6 early February and enquired about their front compliance mounts. I asked about the reported noises and creaking. He said the issue is the control arm is forged and there’s 1.5 mm tolerance from car to car, and it’s hard for them to design a hard bushing that fits all models. So they’re coming up with a new design that has a rubber lining that wraps around the arm and isolate the hard part of the bushing—that was my understanding from what he said. He said it’s in prototype stage now and being tested by a racing team. He said it would be out in a couple of months.

@RV6 do you have an update?

Thanks for that update. I had no idea about that.

Like I said...its an awesome product. I was just not prepared for the noise level but ultimately had to remove for "Compliance" (see what I did there?! ).

I am excited to find out about the updated design and get ahold of a set of the new bushings!

Sponsored

 

[RV6]

@REDRAGN I called RV6 early February and enquired about their front compliance mounts. I asked about the reported noises and creaking. He said the issue is the control arm is forged and there’s 1.5 mm tolerance from car to car, and it’s hard for them to design a hard bushing that fits all models. So they’re coming up with a new design that has a rubber lining that wraps around the arm and isolate the hard part of the bushing—that was my understanding from what he said. He said it’s in prototype stage now and being tested by a racing team. He said it would be out in a couple of months.

@RV6 do you have an update?

Center bushings are done. We are just figuring out the best interference fit for the nylon bushings. We also have to come up with a way to turn the OD to size after pressing in bushing. Hopefully we be ready for testing in the next couple of week.

This will allow for a snug fit with the control arm with minimal play.

 

[Sam3]

Center bushings are done. We are just figuring out the best interference fit for the nylon bushings. We also have to come up with a way to turn the OD to size after pressing in bushing. Hopefully we be ready for testing in the next couple of week.

This will allow for a snug fit with the control arm with minimal play.

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the release.

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Regarding brakes, do you guys feel the FK8 factory calipers become a weak point in the braking system after pads and rotors have been upgraded? Asking because my company is testing our upcoming AP brake kit for the base and Si 10th gen and some Type R owners expressed interest in a similar brake upgrade but I'm not too familiar with Type R specific stuff like this.

In other words, do you guys think there is a need for an upgraded caliper on the factory sized rotor?

 

[REDRAGN]

Regarding brakes, do you guys feel the FK8 factory calipers become a weak point in the braking system after pads and rotors have been upgraded? Asking because my company is testing our upcoming AP brake kit for the base and Si 10th gen and some Type R owners expressed interest in a similar brake upgrade but I'm not too familiar with Type R specific stuff like this.

In other words, do you guys think there is a need for an upgraded caliper on the factory sized rotor?

Good question...lets ask some with more track time @Jason@DASHautosports @Lust @b2point0h

 

[Jason@DASHautosports]

Good question...lets ask some with more track time @Jason@DASHautosports @Lust @b2point0h

I personally am not a complete fan of OEM Brembo brakes on many cars, other than a few that come with a more motorsport oriented Brembo. I think many companies use these calipers as a selling point of the name, but as I say often, not all Brembo are created equal. We had pretty decent luck with the Brembo calipers when using aftermarket stainless pistons and silicone seals/boots, but still prefer a better, stiffer caliper with progressive sized pistons. We have since changed to AP Pro 5000 Calipers for their overall stiffer design, lighter weight, progressive pistons, and better modulation. Also we are running the wider calipers that allow a 25mm thick pad, for endurance racing.

Offering a more budget minded caliper upgrade that will work with stock sized rotors would be a great option, if also radial mounted. Even the AP Racing cast calipers like shown in the pic above are a great upgrade from the Brembo, an AP Pro 5000 Forged caliper would be nice to see but bumps the price up significantly. Also some good options from other companies that would be excellent upgrade from the OEM Brembo.

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

Sounds very similar to the Evo 8/9/X platform which I'm more familiar with. The stock calipers aren't bad by any means and can do well with stainless pistons and the like which will get them to a point that will suffice for moderate track use and having a fun dual purpose car. But if you're using the car for regular heavy track use it's usually more beneficial and cheaper in the long run to just upgrade to brakes that use larger pads that last longer and calipers that don't require rebuilding as often.

I do find it interesting that Honda didn't use staggered piston sizes for the front calipers. That's a pretty common feature in multi piston calipers and it really does help even out pad wear. Doing some quick math, I think I could easily make you guys a caliper setup like what I pictured above (AP Racing calipers on stock CTR rotors). Using either CP8350s (what's in my picture) or one of the Pro 5000s which are more expensive (but a better caliper) would change piston area by less than 2% for either of those.

So essentially no change to brake bias, pads would be around 25% thicker, and usually cost the same or less for a given compound. There'd be more even pad wear from staggered pistons, and the calipers already have the good stuff like stainless pistons and anti knock back springs. I also really like that pad changes only require the removal of one bolt and nothing else. You guys would also have the cost benefit of being able to stick with the factory rotors (or aftermarket 2 piece replacements). Going larger isn't really needed, a 350x32mm rotor has plenty of thermal capacity for this car.

If this is of interest to you guys let me know and I can get some brackets designed up and get our machine shop to make a few prototypes.

 

[REDRAGN]

Sounds very similar to the Evo 8/9/X platform which I'm more familiar with. The stock calipers aren't bad by any means and can do well with stainless pistons and the like which will get them to a point that will suffice for moderate track use and having a fun dual purpose car. But if you're using the car for regular heavy track use it's usually more beneficial and cheaper in the long run to just upgrade to brakes that use larger pads that last longer and calipers that don't require rebuilding as often.

I do find it interesting that Honda didn't use staggered piston sizes for the front calipers. That's a pretty common feature in multi piston calipers and it really does help even out pad wear. Doing some quick math, I think I could easily make you guys a caliper setup like what I pictured above (AP Racing calipers on stock CTR rotors). Using either CP8350s (what's in my picture) or one of the Pro 5000s which are more expensive (but a better caliper) would change piston area by less than 2% for either of those.

So essentially no change to brake bias, pads would be around 25% thicker, and usually cost the same or less for a given compound. There'd be more even pad wear from staggered pistons, and the calipers already have the good stuff like stainless pistons and anti knock back springs. I also really like that pad changes only require the removal of one bolt and nothing else. You guys would also have the cost benefit of being able to stick with the factory rotors (or aftermarket 2 piece replacements). Going larger isn't really needed, a 350x32mm rotor has plenty of thermal capacity for this car.

If this is of interest to you guys let me know and I can get some brackets designed up and get our machine shop to make a few prototypes.

I think the biggest selling points, in my mind, would be not needing to upsize rotors and the thicker pads...not that your other points are not all valid.

I am just tired of blowing through brake pads like crazy so the additional thickness would be awesome! Add in easier pad changes and no bias change...

@ayoustin I have lots of track days coming up if you need a test mule! Road Atlanta, Circuit of the Americas, Atlanta Motorsports Park, Virginia International Raceway...

 

[AlphaDigital]

I personally am not a complete fan of OEM Brembo brakes on many cars, other than a few that come with a more motorsport oriented Brembo. I think many companies use these calipers as a selling point of the name, but as I say often, not all Brembo are created equal. We had pretty decent luck with the Brembo calipers when using aftermarket stainless pistons and silicone seals/boots, but still prefer a better, stiffer caliper with progressive sized pistons. We have since changed to AP Pro 5000 Calipers for their overall stiffer design, lighter weight, progressive pistons, and better modulation. Also we are running the wider calipers that allow a 25mm thick pad, for endurance racing.

Offering a more budget minded caliper upgrade that will work with stock sized rotors would be a great option, if also radial mounted. Even the AP Racing cast calipers like shown in the pic above are a great upgrade from the Brembo, an AP Pro 5000 Forged caliper would be nice to see but bumps the price up significantly. Also some good options from other companies that would be excellent upgrade from the OEM Brembo.

What are your thoughts on the Alcon caliper/rotor upgrade for these cars?

 

[Austin@Wunderladen Racing]

I think the biggest selling points, in my mind, would be not needing to upsize rotors and the thicker pads...not that your other points are not all valid.

I am just tired of blowing through brake pads like crazy so the additional thickness would be awesome! Add in easier pad changes and no bias change...

@ayoustin I have lots of track days coming up if you need a test mule! Road Atlanta, Circuit of the Americas, Atlanta Motorsports Park, Virginia International Raceway...

Agreed, lower running costs and longer lasting brakes is the goal here.

Assuming brackets don't cost us significantly more than the standard Civic brackets and the CP8350 calipers are used we would easily be able to keep the price of the kit (calipers, brackets, hardware, lines) under $2000. I think using something like the Paragon 2 piece rotors with it would get you 90-95% of the performance of other brake kits at a way lower price.

You certainly seem like the type of tester we're looking for. Let me try to get my hands on a local car to get measurements from and brackets designed. We're putting a lot of new products through our machine shop right now so it'll be at least a month or two until we can get prototypes.

 

[b2point0h]

Many of the same sentiments here. The stock calipers are really good and braking is consistent, until you start tracking a lot. I'm on my 2nd set of calipers because I cooked seals, and it was much easier to just swap calipers for the time being.

With that said, I've committed to the Paragon 6 piston kit which should last a lot longer and have less issues with heat and wont cook seals. Better rotors + thicker pads will also be a welcomed upgrade.

 

[dsm_mikey]

100% Game to try these AP Racing calipers with thicker pads. I absolutely loved my AP Racing Brake setup I had on my Z06. If you can upgrade the calipers and keep the oem rotors, I am 100% in.

If I can buy a set to test, I will install and give feedback right away. I will be running several events this year starting at the end of April.

Sounds very similar to the Evo 8/9/X platform which I'm more familiar with. The stock calipers aren't bad by any means and can do well with stainless pistons and the like which will get them to a point that will suffice for moderate track use and having a fun dual purpose car. But if you're using the car for regular heavy track use it's usually more beneficial and cheaper in the long run to just upgrade to brakes that use larger pads that last longer and calipers that don't require rebuilding as often.

I do find it interesting that Honda didn't use staggered piston sizes for the front calipers. That's a pretty common feature in multi piston calipers and it really does help even out pad wear. Doing some quick math, I think I could easily make you guys a caliper setup like what I pictured above (AP Racing calipers on stock CTR rotors). Using either CP8350s (what's in my picture) or one of the Pro 5000s which are more expensive (but a better caliper) would change piston area by less than 2% for either of those.

So essentially no change to brake bias, pads would be around 25% thicker, and usually cost the same or less for a given compound. There'd be more even pad wear from staggered pistons, and the calipers already have the good stuff like stainless pistons and anti knock back springs. I also really like that pad changes only require the removal of one bolt and nothing else. You guys would also have the cost benefit of being able to stick with the factory rotors (or aftermarket 2 piece replacements). Going larger isn't really needed, a 350x32mm rotor has plenty of thermal capacity for this car.

If this is of interest to you guys let me know and I can get some brackets designed up and get our machine shop to make a few prototypes.

 

[HomieGohan]

Many of the same sentiments here. The stock calipers are really good and braking is consistent, until you start tracking a lot. I'm on my 2nd set of calipers because I cooked seals, and it was much easier to just swap calipers for the time being.

With that said, I've committed to the Paragon 6 piston kit which should last a lot longer and have less issues with heat and wont cook seals. Better rotors + thicker pads will also be a welcomed upgrade.

Paragon 6 piston kit is my next purchase for sure. I am considering making a deposit so I can be added on this group purchase they have going on right now.

I recently took off my Project mu pads (Club racers I use on track) due to them being loud on the road daily driving. Anyways, I put the oem ones back on but noticed my Brembos rubber seals torn up and super dry. Does this mean I need to have them rebuilt? I am still driving on them like this with my oem pads and haven't experienced any issues YET.

 

[b2point0h]

Paragon 6 piston kit is my next purchase for sure. I am considering making a deposit so I can be added on this group purchase they have going on right now.

I recently took off my Project mu pads (Club racers I use on track) due to them being loud on the road daily driving. Anyways, I put the oem ones back on but noticed my Brembos rubber seals torn up and super dry. Does this mean I need to have them rebuilt? I am still driving on them like this with my oem pads and haven't experienced any issues YET.

Yeah. They will eventually leak fluid. Fluid on pads/rotors could lead to catastrophe. You should put your name down for the group buy. The discount is really good. Today is the last day to join.

 

[REDRAGN]

Remember I mentioned my front drivers wheel bearing had a bit of play in it? Well I'm glad I decided to replace it...pretty sure it should not be leaking grease!

Shiny new hub. Pretty easy replacement, especially it you already have the lower control arm removed. This had the added bonus of new lug studs as a few of mine have been giving me issues...this is the first Honda I have had this issue on. Never use and impact on them and always hand tq?! Seems others are experiencing this as well too... @MadMage I'll eventually replace them all with ARP extended studs.

I removed my dust shields earlier...the speed sensors were feeling the heat!

Some heat shielding and safetywire...fixed!

A bit of fender rolling for clearance. The primary issue can be seen towards the front arch of the fender...smoothed it out and I should be good to go.

I didn't take any pics of the work out back. Just reinstalled the OEM sway bar end links and lower toe arms for GTA compliance.

Here is a sexy pic of the @ACUITY shifter cable bushings I took while I was changing the transmission fluid with some fresh AC Delco. I didnt follow the directions and installed them just like this...only removed the airbox. While I'm sure ACUiTY does not endorse this method (you could mess up your shifter cables) it was quick and dirty! There is not a better CTR shifting mod for the money!

And with that the car is ready for the 220TW Goodyears and an alignment. Next Thursday is a Jzilla track day at Road Atlanta for a shakedown prior to GTA. @Jason@DASHautosports will be trackside to get me sorted. I'll keep y'all updated!

And I'm gonna make a trip to the dump soon...