PRL Intercooler Issues??

[SukiHonda]

Hey all I just finished installing my PRL intercooler. For clarification I did not upgrade the charge pipes so this was a FMIC upgrade only. I think a mod list would be needed before I jump into what I’m experiencing.
2020 Civic EX hatch CVT (FK7)

- PRL Short Ram Intake w/ Race MAF

- KTuner V2 currently running Phearable 1.5R tune

Pre PRL Intercooler upgrade experience

Car felt nimble and zippy. My STFT1 was hitting around positive 15% when I was pressing on the peddle. I didn’t worry too much about this since I had recently upgraded to PRL SRI w/ Race MAF (during stock MAF STFT1 would never go or get close to positive/negative 10%) which I knew was letting in more air. Plus when off the peddle and cruising I was 0% on my LTFT1 and STR1 or damn there with in 3% positive/negative. LTFT1 was always with in 3%-0 positive/negative depending on my driving that day. The PRL SRI sounded like as it is normally advertised. It just started getting warm here in NYC last week so I decided to by the Intercooler especially since I installed a SRI. My temps pre install was about 143 F for IAT1 and 114 F for IAT2 give or take. ECT can be around 178-205 depending on the type of traffic I’m dealing with. Before it started warming up outside I was seeing a constant 70-90 F for IAT1 w/ IAT2 being as low as 60-40 F, again give or take.

Post Intercooler upgrade experience

I tried following YouTube and the manual as close as possible but it seems the manual and videos online are more tailored Towards upgrading the Intercooler with the charge pipes. When upgrading the FMIC only the cold and hot charge pipe adapters are different. I followed the manual step by step but when it came to the adapters I had to use the small diagram PRL provided. Since I am a visual learner this got me worried the install is incorrect. I’m almost 99% sure I did everything correctly but that 1% is haunting me since I can not confirm anywhere online visually just with the diagram. Now when I first received the Intercooler there were about 1-3 fins bent nothing drastic but it was noticeable. The fins that were bent was locate on the back of the Intercooler and I’ve read it will not effect the Intercooler performance if a few are bent and the angle of the bent is not too much which it isn’t. I triple checked my work before putting the front bumper back on and everything was tight and solid. All bolts were tight and all connecting parts were sealed tight. After putting on the bumper I noticed two hex screws remaining.. I’m thinking I might have reused the stock 10mm bolt to seal the driver side adapter to the stick charge pipe but again everything was sealed and can’t really see this as a reason for the following issues especially since The bolts were used in the same screw hole but hey I could be wrong or maybe PRL sends two extra hex screws??

When I hopped in the car for a test drive I noticed a-lot. The biggest one being my IAT temps. They were pretty similar to what it was pre Intercooler upgrade. During the test drive outside temps was a cool 67 F my IAT1 would range from 90-120 and my IAT2 would be 80-110. Which I thought was strange since reviews people were claiming heat soak isn’t even a thing anymore, given I have a SRI w/ Race MAF I wasn’t expecting extreme results but generously something a little better than stock ranges.

I also noticed strange behavior in my fuel trims. My STFT1 are currently hitting positive 20-30% when on the peddle. When letting off the peddle sometimes it would go to 0%, sometimes it stays at 20-30% positive and negative, sometimes it would stay at 20-30% for a sec or two then drop to 0%. My LTFT1 was acting strange too. To my

Understanding LTFT1 is more of “habit” and is based on car usage. During test drive I been going pretty heavy on the gas probably 50% I also did a WOT pull at one point. My LTFT1 slowly raised to 10% over a few mins of driving and then slowly go back to 3-0 % with in another few minutes. I don’t think that would be too concern since I was kinda beating the peddle. I don’t usually go pass 30% consecutively on the peddle so something like this with my LTFT1 is rare to my eyes and I’m hoping it’s normal. My STFT1 is really concerning me the most.

Monitoring my MAP sensor I start at a negative 9-10% when off the peddle. When building boost and on the peddle I get to 10% and let off. The boost build up is consistent, I can’t really hear any air letting out during the build up. It feels like it’s supposed to and the numbers work like they are supposed so I’m not really sold on a boost/vacuum leak. I didn’t really take it pass 10% just in case there is a leak I’m not damaging my turbo too much.

Now with PRL SRI the sound did kinda change. Instead of the immediate medal, sudden, blow off sound you can hear That same sound was but more of a hiss as the sounds fades out. I admit it sounds way nicer but I’m afraid that hiss fade out sound is because I do actually have a leak somewhere… I can always upload before and after sound clicks.
Finally I use the old turn off eco mode and drop to S gear for a nice seat sink feeling or a way to merge safely or fast. Now that I’ve installed the Intercooler I don’t get that feeling anymore. Matter of fact all gears feel like it’s lacking in power from eco mode to L gear. Again I don’t think this is due to a boost leak since I build up consistently but maybe due to the heat soak since the Intercooler isn’t doing anything? This is my first time experiencing warm weather with the SRI so I never really felt my car heat soaked and loss of power because of it.

I currently have no engine codes as per KTuner and dash lights. I will try to do some data logging tomorrow in the night and will post here.

My questions are:
1. Why are my fuel trims especially STFT1 so weird?
2. Shouldn’t I notice a considerable difference between IAT1 and IAT2?
3. Why does my car have a feeling for lack of power?
4. Possible leak somewhere?
5. Should I install the proper bolt?

I’m really sorry for the lengthy read but just wanted to be as detailed as possible and sorry for the lack of close up pics.. I totally forgot to take pics I was just too excited. I really would appreciate any feedback.

 

[bluehatch17]

I know this will sound awful but check for boost leak. It’s 90% of the time the problem. Instead of removing the bumper, just use the stock dashboard to see if you are making solid high teens psi. If you are not, then you have a leak.

I installed things tight or so I thought and a few weeks later, there was a leak. Car drove pretty totally fine but made pretty much no power as it could not go above certain psi.

retighten and no issues since.

 

[Old F@rt]

During the test drive outside temps was a cool 67 F my IAT1 would range from 90-120 and my IAT2 would be 80-110.

Looks like the intercooler is working great going by those numbers. The fact that the PRL FMIC was able to pull temps down below your intake temps, means it is doing a great job. The short ram intake is killing your gains though. Ambient of 67 & intake of 90-120 is not great. A true CAI ( such as PRL Cobra) will give you intake temps around 5degs over ambient.
As for leaks, check all connections are secure & you did make sure the O rings that are at intercooler/ charge pipe connection were in place right? HTH

 

[SukiHonda]

I know this will sound awful but check for boost leak. It’s 90% of the time the problem. Instead of removing the bumper, just use the stock dashboard to see if you are making solid high teens psi. If you are not, then you have a leak.

I installed things tight or so I thought and a few weeks later, there was a leak. Car drove pretty totally fine but made pretty much no power as it could not go above certain psi.

retighten and no issues since.

I’ll give it a shot tonight and see if I can hit the teens consistently when building boost I’ll also post my logs here. I’m probably going to tare down the car again this weekend to confirm everything was done correctly. Would you be able to tell me what your temps are pre and post Intercooler? Also are you using stock intake?

 

[SukiHonda]

Looks like the intercooler is working great going by those numbers. The fact that the PRL FMIC was able to pull temps down below your intake temps, means it is doing a great job. The short ram intake is killing your gains though. Ambient of 67 & intake of 90-120 is not great. A true CAI ( such as PRL Cobra) will give you intake temps around 5degs over ambient.
As for leaks, check all connections are secure & you did make sure the O rings that are at intercooler/ charge pipe connection were in place right? HTH

Your giving me hope! You did make a valid point since temps are down post Intercooler. The O rings were definitely there when I installed I kept the OEM O rings on both OEM charge pipes and the O rings that came with the cold and hot charge pipe adapters pre installed was used to join the inter cooler and the adapters. The thing that is getting me is my temps are pretty much the same before upgrading the FMIC. I live in NYC were we have random floods during rain storms and thought a CAI will be putting me at risk for hydro locking reason why I decided to go with SRI and Intercooler. I will be taking apart the car again this weekend and will be taking better pictures of the connections along with making sure everything is connected properly I might also buy one of those DIY smoke kits to see if any leaks. What kind of set up are you running in regards to intake?

Also any input on my crazy STFT readings?

 

[SukiHonda]

This was my readings last night when idling I know IAT temps don’t really apply when idling but STFT is worrying me

 

[Old F@rt]

Your giving me hope! You did make a valid point since temps are down post Intercooler. The O rings were definitely there when I installed I kept the OEM O rings on both OEM charge pipes and the O rings that came with the cold and hot charge pipe adapters pre installed was used to join the inter cooler and the adapters. The thing that is getting me is my temps are pretty much the same before upgrading the FMIC. I live in NYC were we have random floods during rain storms and thought a CAI will be putting me at risk for hydro locking reason why I decided to go with SRI and Intercooler. I will be taking apart the car again this weekend and will be taking better pictures of the connections along with making sure everything is connected properly I might also buy one of those DIY smoke kits to see if any leaks. What kind of set up are you running in regards to intake?

Also any input on my crazy STFT readings?

I run the PRL Cobra Race intake mated up to the 27Won inlet pipe. This all feeds an Injen FMIC with Injen charge pipes. I live in Florida & deal with plenty of monsoon like downpours. I just drive very cautious if caught in one. I never intend to drive through standing water, so am not concerned with hydro-lock. I even opened up the Driver send fake vent to allow more "cool" intake air in. My IAT1 will sit 3-5degs over ambient & IAT2 will sit anywhere from 9-14 degs over ambient. This is when driving pretty hard. Stop/go traffic & those numbers & LTFTs will climb.

The Race MAF is well documented in causing wild swings in fuel trims & I think that is what you're seeing. Combine that with the ram intake pulling in warmer air & the ECU has to make corrections. You'll see much different temps with a CAI, but only you can decide if it is a good option, giving your flooding issues.

Here's the opening in fake vent to match passenger side horn opening

 

[SukiHonda]

Ya know what I took a spin last night in 71 F weather. I gotta say your point in having a difference between IAT1 and IA2 temps pretty much means is working holds true. Although I’m seeing like 10-15 degree differences should I be expecting a more significant difference? At one point driving locally in stop and go I saw a difference of 50 deg F. I was super happy about that but it went back to a 10-15 deg difference shortly after.. haha. I noticed sometimes when idle waiting for red light the difference goes as small as 5 deg, not sure if that’s concerning or not since I know at idle there is no air intake occurring. I was able to go WOT a few times and hit 20-22 PSI consistently. I filled my tires with air to 3psi above spec (35 psi) and I gotta say I no longer feel that loss in power.. maybe the install was correct and FMIC is working! The STFT1 going crazy still gets me since it wasn’t as instense with just the SRI prior to FMIC upgrade. When off the gas and car rolling both fuel trims do lock up at 0% 95% of the time until gas pedal is applied again. There is a few occasions when when letting the car role LTFT1 is at positive/negative 0-3% but STFT1 will be at positive negative 15-25%.

idk I’m waiting on feed back from PRL. I sent them an email a day ago. I also purchased a DIY smoke kit to test for leaks just to be sure and will use it this week when I run through install again to make sure everything done correctly

I might pull the trigger and get a SRI to CAI conversion kit after taking off the bumper and seeing where the filter would sit I think I should be good I don’t think I ever seen water levels in NYC that go that high.

nice work on the car btw I peep the HFP lip haha I’ve been considering it and that rally red is crisp

if I do convert to CAI I’m not sure if I’ll cut a vent I have 2020 and the fog light cover is flat not meshed like your model plus my lane assist sensor is located right there as well so I don’t want to risk something hitting it. Or maybe I can apply a mesh if I do cut it something to think about

I’ll post data logs tonight when I get off work was only able to do one log tho will try to do more tonight

 

[Old F@rt]

Ya know what I took a spin last night in 71 F weather. I gotta say your point in having a difference between IAT1 and IA2 temps pretty much means is working holds true. Although I’m seeing like 10-15 degree differences should I be expecting a more significant difference? At one point driving locally in stop and go I saw a difference of 50 deg F. I was super happy about that but it went back to a 10-15 deg difference shortly after.. haha. I noticed sometimes when idle waiting for red light the difference goes as small as 5 deg, not sure if that’s concerning or not since I know at idle there is no air intake occurring. I was able to go WOT a few times and hit 20-22 PSI consistently. I filled my tires with air to 3psi above spec (35 psi) and I gotta say I no longer feel that loss in power.. maybe the install was correct and FMIC is working! The STFT1 going crazy still gets me since it wasn’t as instense with just the SRI prior to FMIC upgrade. When off the gas and car rolling both fuel trims do lock up at 0% 95% of the time until gas pedal is applied again. There is a few occasions when when letting the car role LTFT1 is at positive/negative 0-3% but STFT1 will be at positive negative 15-25%.

idk I’m waiting on feed back from PRL. I sent them an email a day ago. I also purchased a DIY smoke kit to test for leaks just to be sure and will use it this week when I run through install again to make sure everything done correctly

I might pull the trigger and get a SRI to CAI conversion kit after taking off the bumper and seeing where the filter would sit I think I should be good I don’t think I ever seen water levels in NYC that go that high.

nice work on the car btw I peep the HFP lip haha I’ve been considering it and that rally red is crisp

if I do convert to CAI I’m not sure if I’ll cut a vent I have 2020 and the fog light cover is flat not meshed like your model plus my lane assist sensor is located right there as well so I don’t want to risk something hitting it. Or maybe I can apply a mesh if I do cut it something to think about

I’ll post data logs tonight when I get off work was only able to do one log tho will try to do more tonight

It really does sound like it's working just fine. You have to remember, an intercooler only works when "cooler" air is moving across it while driving. On a cold day, it's going to work much faster than in the summer heat. Sitting in traffic, will gradually cause both IATs to climb, until you can get moving & force that cooler air back across the FMIC.
I really wouldn't worry too much about those STFTs, when your LTFTs seem to be pretty stable.
I think you should relax & enjoy the car. HTH

 

[SukiHonda]

It really does sound like it's working just fine. You have to remember, an intercooler only works when "cooler" air is moving across it while driving. On a cold day, it's going to work much faster than in the summer heat. Sitting in traffic, will gradually cause both IATs to climb, until you can get moving & force that cooler air back across the FMIC.
I really wouldn't worry too much about those STFTs, when your LTFTs seem to be pretty stable.
I think you should relax & enjoy the car. HTH

appreciate the feedback on all of this

 

[Longislandcivic]

I think your wonky fuel trim is caused by the Sri, not intercooler. I would put the stock air box back on and check. Is it worth letting in more dust particles? Once your rings wear out, you'll be burning oil like crazy, not to mention turbo failure.

 

[Old F@rt]

Is it worth letting in more dust particles? Once your rings wear out, you'll be burning oil like crazy, not to mention turbo failure.

I'll assume you are making this comment about the high flow air filter? Just a guess, as you never took the time to explain your reasoning, so care to explain?

Before you do, I would just say 2 stroke & 4 stroke engines have been using oiled filters for decades in harsh enviroments.

Go look at the tuned thread & just about everyone is using a high flow oiled ( & in some cases oiless) filter. No one ( that I'm aware of) has reported worn turbo or rings due to filter, but feel to search.

High flow filters do flow more particles, that is how they function, but you're comparing differences in microns. If you can even measure a micron ( say 100 micron vs 10) how could you even see piston ring wear? Even if you could, it's why engines have oil to prevent that wear.

 

[Longislandcivic]

That's OK. I'm not here to argue.

 

[Old F@rt]

That's OK. I'm not here to argue.

Me either, but you made the comment without giving any explanation & not sure how that would help the OP? I'll stay out of it now.

 

[gtman]

Like Old F@rt, I've been driving a long time and I've had oiled and dry aftermarket performance filters on most of my cars. SRIs and CAIs too. And yes, let's get this out of the way first --- they don't filter quite as well as OEM filters. But like @Old F@rt said, it's to a relatively minor degree.

Sure, reusable aftermarket filters require maintenance (cleaning, proper oiling) to work their best but I think most owners do their due diligence on that.

I've had all the name brand performance drop-in panels (K&N, aFe, AEM etc.) and many aftermarket cone filters and never once in 40+ years of driving have I had an issue caused by them.

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