5th gen Supra will pwn the Type R

xcoreflyup said:

No stick shift and it is pretty much a Z4 mix bag with supra skin.....typical Toyota, they outsource half of the work to bmw just like the FRS. The shifter is straight from the out-going Z4.

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BMW probably produced a bunch of Z4 "couples", but never sold very well. As such, BMW probably have a lot of Z4 couple chassis laying around. Toyota being a car company is in it for making $$. So when the idea came to reintroduce the Supra, Toyota engage BMW about their "leftover" Z4 chassis for probably pennies the dollar, then had GR develop it to try to shed away some of the BMW image...but still, this fucking new Supra is basically a Z4M Couple with the S54 motor!!! Basically new body skin

Yeah you'd think with Toyota's resources they'd be able and WILLING to build their own Supra and make it a class leading car that punches well above its price point, like the last gen Supra. I mean, isnt one of the big reasons people buy Toyotas is that they arent anything like BMWs? Not a good time to be a die hard Supra fan.

It be a lot different, had Toyota went with Toyota engine with, either Toyota 8-speed auto (similar to the ones on RC-F), or 7-speed dual clutch like BMW. At least with this configuration, the heart of the beast is still a Toyota! As of now, it is a BMW Z4 Couple!

Ehh cts-v

scoobysnack said:

I'll make a prediction now. The new Supra is a huge flop.

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Funny thing is... the Mk 4 was pretty much a huge flop too. They sold about 4x the number of 300zxs in a single year when the Z32 hit the showrooms in 1990 than they did through the entire '93-'98 production run of the Supra. Toyota couldn't sell them... though admittedly by the time they were coming out, the market was cooling considerable... because Nissan folded Z sales after '96 stateside. Pretty much everyone was done by decade's end. If it wasn't for TF&TF it would never have had it's surge in popularity. It was a good car, don't get me wrong... but amongst the 300zx, 3000GT, Stealth and Rx7... I'd of chosen several of them over it at the time... and still would today (and have). I'd probably put only put the Stealth under the Supra based on aesthetics alone.

IMO... It's cost a little too much and is too little car for what it is. The base V8 muscle of today will match it in a straight line... but they handle so well anymore, I'm not sure that it would even beat it on a track. They should have made a hot turbo Toyota 86 as a Supra trim... like the Celica/Supras of old... or charged a bit more money than this car and made it more of a Corvette/Cayman competitor, performance-wise. It doesn't stand out.

Power isn't everything... I just don't feel any interest even looking at the car from an aesthetic point-of-view. We'll have to see how it does in instrumented tests and get the subjective, "how it feels to drive it" perspective.

It looks like it would have been a hell of a car if it came out 15 years ago when cheap American muscle hadn't really come on... the C6 was still new and a ~300 hp 350z with a cheap interior was around. Now... like the 370z which was dated pretty much as soon as it came out 10 years ago as a 350z-rehash. It just... it's too much of an over-priced 'tweener. I don't think it has enough of it's own identity to really take off. It wouldn't be getting nearly as much attention if it didn't have 'Supra' on it.

Maybe… hopefully I'll be wrong. The world could use another good sportscar and Toyota can make a pretty outstanding car... and the premium worksmanship may be telling over rival products who's fit and finish may be sub-par who are as good or better (Porsche) but at a price premium. I think the market is going to be very, very small. I still think they would have been better served with a 300-ish HP 86 Supra for ~$35k. Ever since the couple years a MazdaSpeed Mx5 came and went, I think a fun tiny little tossable car that goes from having just enough horsepower to way-too-damn-much would be welcome.

We shall see...

When I see one out on the street... I'll probably want one anyways... just a little.

UFO CTR said:

BMW probably produced a bunch of Z4 "couples", but never sold very well. As such, BMW probably have a lot of Z4 couple chassis laying around. Toyota being a car company is in it for making $$. So when the idea came to reintroduce the Supra, Toyota engage BMW about their "leftover" Z4 chassis for probably pennies the dollar, then had GR develop it to try to shed away some of the BMW image...but still, this fucking new Supra is basically a Z4M Couple with the S54 motor!!! Basically new body skin

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The shifter is pulled from this one (google 2014 z4 interior, you will see) and I read somwhere that the AC or audio unit is the from the out-going 3 series (2012+). I was a diehard BMW guy and I liked the old BMW Z4 couple (E85 and E86). The E89 on another hand, is a total flop. Looks great but it became a straight up SLK cruiser competitor, people would rather track the 3 series instead of the Z4.

UFO CTR said:

BMW probably produced a bunch of Z4 "couples", but never sold very well. As such, BMW probably have a lot of Z4 couple chassis laying around. Toyota being a car company is in it for making $$. So when the idea came to reintroduce the Supra, Toyota engage BMW about their "leftover" Z4 chassis for probably pennies the dollar, then had GR develop it to try to shed away some of the BMW image...but still, this fucking new Supra is basically a Z4M Couple with the S54 motor!!! Basically new body skin

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Supra is built on the BMW CLAR platform, not the previous generation Z4 platform. Engine is B58, not S54.

turbo lover said:

Supra is built on the BMW CLAR platform, not the previous generation Z4 platform. Engine is B58, not S54.

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understood, but it's still a Z3/Z4...however you look at it.

EDIT: S54 is similar idea, 333 hp to 335 hp....inline 6.

I dont see the issue with it being based on BMW. BMW is thoroughly known for making cars with great driving dynamics and this Z4 platform is no exception to that so I dont see the issue. Also, BMW is pretty much the last brand making inline 6 engines at this time and Toyota probably saw it easier to take their B58 rather than develop an entirely new engine. We're lucky Toyota released the Supra at all in this crossover dominated market. Also, the B58 sounds incredible as well and will probably have great tuning capability once the market catches up so there's that. If toyota decided to develop their own platform, if wouldn't have made finanical sense probably

Speaking of 1 of the best BMW moment last year

Maybe a little off topic, but a little history on the Mk IV against the competition of the day. It was pretty even at the time and goes to show the Supra in it's day wasn't anything special over it's competition unless it was the one that called to you and made you pick it. I think Nissan's marketing campaign is what drew me to the Z so much as a teen. I can't recall a single Toyota Supra commercial in the '90s. Also, in light of the Superbowl, linked is the Ridley Scott 1990 Superbowl commercial that only managed to run once because it promoted speeding... So I'm having this dream... I'm in a turbo Z.

When the Z hit in '89 as as '90 model, it was amazing. While everything around it caught up and matched, if not beat it as the years went by... I always thought it was the most special. That 1990 model design was pretty much locked down as an '87 concept... when the Z31 was just getting it's mid-cycle refresh.

Awesome. I came in here specifically to post that Motorweek clip in this thread and see that you beat me to it.

I've thought alot about this over the last couple months and my conclusion is that the new Supra is first and foremost NOT a Toyota Supra so it doesnt even deserve its own existence. Theres nothing positive any rational person could objectively say about the new Supra.

With regards to the Mark IV, the Motorweek vid didnt capture one of the big reasons the Mark IV has become such an icon, while the others in the vid have faded comparatively. The engine was a beast. It was over built and tuners have sought that engine... harvested that engine... because of the fantastic Toyota engineering put into it. The mark IV engine is legendary for pushing 1000 HP and staying intact. Its that Toyota engineering that made the mark IV what it is today.

I bet nobody would have a problem with the car if it wasn't named a Supra. (aside from the lack of MT)

scoobysnack said:

Awesome. I came in here specifically to post that Motorweek clip in this thread and see that you beat me to it.

I've thought alot about this over the last couple months and my conclusion is that the new Supra is first and foremost NOT a Toyota Supra so it doesnt even deserve its own existence. Theres nothing positive any rational person could objectively say about the new Supra.

With regards to the Mark IV, the Motorweek vid didnt capture one of the big reasons the Mark IV has become such an icon, while the others in the vid have faded comparatively. The engine was a beast. It was over built and tuners have sought that engine... harvested that engine... because of the fantastic Toyota engineering put into it. The mark IV engine is legendary for pushing 1000 HP and staying intact. Its that Toyota engineering that made the mark IV what it is today.

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Well put. And on the tamer side... for modding on the cheap, I think out of the bunch they had the largest stock injectors, 555s. I know the Z only had 370ccs. It made for being able to run higher boost on the stock turbos for a minimum of $$$. There's a lot of cheap injectors of questionable quality floating around now a days... but awhile back, getting a set of quality injectors wasn't an inexpensive prospect. In the late 90s/early 00s as I was getting into all these cars, while slapping an intake or custom (read: cheap muffler shop) exhaust wouldn't set you back much, once you started approaching 100% duty cycle on your stock injectors... that was it... even with the small stock turbos. Supras had the most headroom to just run something like a Hallman for 40 bucks and make gobs of power w/o running out of fuel.

That's why I got 740cc ones when I replaced them. Headroom!

Glad Toyota and BMW collaborated to give the world two sports cars in a time where it seems all anyone wants are SUVs. Mazda did the same thing with Fiat for the Miata. Nissan is making a new Z. I hope Honda has the heart to find a way to create an S2000 successor. *prayer emoji*