Overheating & What You Can Do To Stop It

[Lust]

Thanks Lust for your recommendations.
If like I was confirmed from others and a Hinda tech, we can swap out our bumpers to 2020 own to avail the larger grille. Case in point, I was going replace front bumper per an insurance claim thus the new 2020 bumpers to swap in on my ‘18 fk8

However like you mentioned fk8 could use an oil cooler I had played with idea before the new 2020 bumper came out, but please confirm with me if you will:
Will the 2020 grille fit to either bumper or do I need to get whole new 2020 bumper with grille - (Assuming like you touched eith a bigger grill opening for more air, which creates more drag which iron mistaken would explain why the bumper layout or bottom splitter is slightly different to compensate for any additional drag)
Then to avail any venting fit oil cooler, will that driver side vented panel fit on do we need while 2020 bumper?
Or is there not a slit opening on 2020 driver side to allow air in there? Will that suffice enough air for oil cooler?

As far as bigger down pipe, is it the rv6 performance but is there a catted version for those of us in Calif ?
Then assuming we the need to titanium wrap oil pan just not downpipe , correct?

As for oil, did I make a mistake on switching to amsoil but I forget which grade it was I think it was 5w-20 xl?

Meanwhile I’m a week or so awaiting on C&R radiator-street version

Thanks for your advice.
Forrest

I’m not entirely sure on the 2020 grills and compatibility so hopefully someone can chime in on that.

RV6 does offer a high flow cat option which is what I have on my car.

Thermal barriers will certainly help.

5w-20 is fine but you might see increased start up wear with a higher winter weight. I’m having great success with Motul 300v 0w-20. You can experiment with 0w-30 as well.

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[DRUSA]

I feel like all the "fixes" so far have been band-aids to try to get rid of heat.
>Air flow into radiator increased with grill
>2020 radiator with more fin surface area
>aftermarket radiators increase capacity

Seems like key areas I haven't seen really addressed would be the airflow exiting the radiator, using ducting to a hood vent or extracting under the car via S2000 splash shield does. It looks like hot air is being trapped between the fans and cat, just a giant pool of heat that continues to build up until it effects radiator temps/efficiency. I'm hoping to tilt the radiator as a whole assembly, use the standard hatchback condenser since it's smaller and V-mount with stock intercooler or custom up top. If done properly, all of this will remain CARB legal as well. Intercooler changes are allowed on gas powered vehicle in CA. It has the potential to be a good setup while using all the factory dimensioned parts but changing the front core support using custom brackets.

The idea of offering a replacement crash beam, new upper and lower radiator brackets and possibly one custom a/c discharge line sounds nice compared to dumping thousands chasing a fix. That can be made for a couple hundred dollars while still utilizing stock components, but making them work better.

 

[Jwolf]

I feel like all the "fixes" so far have been band-aids to try to get rid of heat.
>Air flow into radiator increased with grill
>2020 radiator with more fin surface area
>aftermarket radiators increase capacity

Seems like key areas I haven't seen really addressed would be the airflow exiting the radiator, using ducting to a hood vent or extracting under the car via S2000 splash shield does. It looks like hot air is being trapped between the fans and cat, just a giant pool of heat that continues to build up until it effects radiator temps/efficiency. I'm hoping to tilt the radiator as a whole assembly, use the standard hatchback condenser since it's smaller and V-mount with stock intercooler or custom up top. If done properly, all of this will remain CARB legal as well. Intercooler changes are allowed on gas powered vehicle in CA. It has the potential to be a good setup while using all the factory dimensioned parts but changing the front core support using custom brackets.

The idea of offering a replacement crash beam, new upper and lower radiator brackets and possibly one custom a/c discharge line sounds nice compared to dumping thousands chasing a fix. That can be made for a couple hundred dollars while still utilizing stock components, but making them work better.

I fail to see the logic behind your proposition. Your argument seems to be based on the TCR that uses this setup, but that car is dare I say, vastly different.

Had the solution been as simple as you claim, don't you think Honda would've just done it themselves, especially with the amount of resources they have compared to the average forum racer with a hunch?

You present 0 evidence to support any of your claims.

But by all means, if you can easily do what Honda could not for a few hundred dollars and some elbow grease, I'm sure Honda would have a job ready for you as a lead automotive engineer.

 

[17RGuy]

I fail to see the logic behind your proposition. Your argument seems to be based on the TCR that uses this setup, but that car is dare I say, vastly different.

Had the solution been as simple as you claim, don't you think Honda would've just done it themselves, especially with the amount of resources they have compared to the average forum racer with a hunch?

You present 0 evidence to support any of your claims.

But by all means, if you can easily do what Honda could not for a few hundred dollars and some elbow grease, I'm sure Honda would have a job ready for you as a lead automotive engineer.

I can’t wait to report my track data next year in the TX heat. Stock tune with all the cooling goodies. I agree with your comment and we’ve mentioned tunes are a huge contributor to heat...

 

[Jwolf]

I can’t wait to report my track data next year in the TX heat. Stock tune with all the cooling goodies. I agree with your comment and we’ve mentioned tunes are a huge contributor to heat...

Data is what we need at this point and I am anxious to see various peoples results next season, as that will of course further pave the way for others and myself to make the most optimal modifications.

Mod wise, what is your goal?

 

[17RGuy]

Data is what we need at this point and I am anxious to see various peoples results next season, as that will of course further pave the way for others and myself to make the most optimal modifications.

Mod wise, what is your goal?

I have a PRL stage 1 intake, C&R fmic, and I made a custom 2.5” exhaust for my fk8. Those are my only mods that could add any (very minimal) power.
Track reliability mods are:
-C&R race radiator
-C&R upgraded oil cooler for HKS system
-27Won boost tubes
-Catch can
-2020 oem grille
-Trackspecmotorsports vented hood
-oil temp/oil pressure gauge

 

[Jwolf]

I have a PRL stage 1 intake, C&R fmic, and I made a custom 2.5” exhaust for my fk8. Those are my only mods that could add any (very minimal) power.
Track reliability mods are:
-C&R race radiator
-C&R upgraded oil cooler for HKS system
-27Won boost tubes
-Catch can
-2020 oem grille
-Trackspecmotorsports vented hood
-oil temp/oil pressure gauge

I have a fairly similar goal in mind, so I'll be quite interested in the data you get. I prefer to stay relatively close to stock power and focus on reliability/heat management everywhere else.

 

[17RGuy]

I have a fairly similar goal in mind, so I'll be quite interested in the data you get. I prefer to stay relatively close to stock power and focus on reliability/heat management everywhere else.

I’ve driven high horsepower rwd platforms on track before my type r. I know the fk8 can make decent power with mods, but I purposely want to keep it close to stock power even if the platform didn’t have overheating problems.
My growing family keeps funds dedicated to hpde entrance fees and brakes/fluids. Funds for broken high hp cars are not in the cards and mods usually lead to broken shit ?

 

[Jwolf]

I’ve driven high horsepower rwd platforms on track before my type r. I know the fk8 can make decent power with mods, but I purposely want to keep it close to stock power even if the platform didn’t have overheating problems.
My growing family keeps funds dedicated to hpde entrance fees and brakes/fluids. Funds for broken high hp cars are not in the cards and mods usually lead to broken shit ?

While I don't have a growing family just yet, I can totally understand lol. Allocating that cash for just seat time is always the most important thing.

 

[Dave B]

I’ve driven high horsepower rwd platforms on track before my type r. I know the fk8 can make decent power with mods, but I purposely want to keep it close to stock power even if the platform didn’t have overheating problems.
My growing family keeps funds dedicated to hpde entrance fees and brakes/fluids. Funds for broken high hp cars are not in the cards and mods usually lead to broken shit ?

Agree completely. I, too, have tracked more powerful rear wheel drive cars but plan to keep my CTR stock motor wise. Having an extra 20-50 hp will not make for that much better an HPDE experience and may well cause a lot more heat issues which make the experience worse. Even if competing in a time-attack series, for some rule sets, the extra HP only moves you up a class which means you are no more competitive than you were in the first place. Better to spend your money on tires, wheels and track time.

 

[PTYFK8]

https://www.encuentra24.com/panama-...keyword.hondata&list=searchresult&catslug=all

For Sale... I have spent 2 years trying to fix it. I really like how it handle on the track, but simply cant live with the overheat.

 

[DRUSA]

You present 0 evidence to support any of your claims.

On the flip-side, I'm seeing 0 evidence to support any permanent fixes so far. It overheats in 6 laps instead of 3 is not a permanent fix for me.

Crash safety, packaging, and cost. They shoe-horn a 2.0L turbo into the car with little hot climate testing. It pulls some records on high speed tracks in cool climates and they ship it, doesn't overheat in normal driving, good to go. You don't redesign the entire front end due to cost, using one less $1 bolt over the course of a million cars saves the company 1 million dollars on production cost. Redesigning the whole front end for a limited production run for conditions 99% of owners will not subject the car to is not financially practical on their end. It's a world market car, $1,000 in changes equates to millions, not to mention tooling and production cost to manufacture the parts. Once you have addressed the cooling issue, now you have to worry if you have altered emissions, here you go again with further testing costs.

Car needs to meet crash standards, same issues apply. Now you need to redesign the entire front end of the CTR vs Standard HB and subject it all to the same frontal collision testing. Not worth the cost for a limited number of models.

TCR car runs full sessions, podiums regularly, not seeing them stop after 5 laps for a cool down. Proof is in the working concept. TCR is not running a stacked setup, why would they change it from the stock layout if the stock layout did not have it's problems during testing. They moved to a more efficient layout without the need for crash testing certification, that production cars would require.

<Only guy proposing following proven track results from factory backed teams instead of making the radiator endlessly massive to compensate for an after-thought trim level car. I propose following the Honda racecar solutions and not "forum hunches". Everyone's solution so far is to just add more heat exchangers or increase their capacities until they overwhelm the thermal load, while I'm proposing increasing the thermal efficiency of current parts using redirected improved airflow. So far, 16 pages into this with no proven solution, only the hope C&R has made a radiator massive enough with enough working surface area to let me now track in anything under 80 degrees instead of 70 degrees, with members still reporting problems.

 

[NinjaDog]

does the car give you any feedback that power has been reduced to compensate for heatsoak?
Like, an alert on the dash or something?

 

[Lust]

On the flip-side, I'm seeing 0 evidence to support any permanent fixes so far. It overheats in 6 laps instead of 3 is not a permanent fix for me.

Crash safety, packaging, and cost. They shoe-horn a 2.0L turbo into the car with little hot climate testing. It pulls some records on high speed tracks in cool climates and they ship it, doesn't overheat in normal driving, good to go. You don't redesign the entire front end due to cost, using one less $1 bolt over the course of a million cars saves the company 1 million dollars on production cost. Redesigning the whole front end for a limited production run for conditions 99% of owners will not subject the car to is not financially practical on their end. It's a world market car, $1,000 in changes equates to millions, not to mention tooling and production cost to manufacture the parts. Once you have addressed the cooling issue, now you have to worry if you have altered emissions, here you go again with further testing costs.

Car needs to meet crash standards, same issues apply. Now you need to redesign the entire front end of the CTR vs Standard HB and subject it all to the same frontal collision testing. Not worth the cost for a limited number of models.

TCR car runs full sessions, podiums regularly, not seeing them stop after 5 laps for a cool down. Proof is in the working concept. TCR is not running a stacked setup, why would they change it from the stock layout if the stock layout did not have it's problems during testing. They moved to a more efficient layout without the need for crash testing certification, that production cars would require.

<Only guy proposing following proven track results from factory backed teams instead of making the radiator endlessly massive to compensate for an after-thought trim level car. I propose following the Honda racecar solutions and not "forum hunches". Everyone's solution so far is to just add more heat exchangers or increase their capacities until they overwhelm the thermal load, while I'm proposing increasing the thermal efficiency of current parts using redirected improved airflow. So far, 16 pages into this with no proven solution, only the hope C&R has made a radiator massive enough with enough working surface area to let me now track in anything under 80 degrees instead of 70 degrees, with members still reporting problems.

I guess my personal car being tracked in 100F+ weather equates to zero evidence.

If you have the budget to V mount the radiator please do and report back with your findings

 

[Jwolf]

On the flip-side, I'm seeing 0 evidence to support any permanent fixes so far. It overheats in 6 laps instead of 3 is not a permanent fix for me.

Crash safety, packaging, and cost. They shoe-horn a 2.0L turbo into the car with little hot climate testing. It pulls some records on high speed tracks in cool climates and they ship it, doesn't overheat in normal driving, good to go. You don't redesign the entire front end due to cost, using one less $1 bolt over the course of a million cars saves the company 1 million dollars on production cost. Redesigning the whole front end for a limited production run for conditions 99% of owners will not subject the car to is not financially practical on their end. It's a world market car, $1,000 in changes equates to millions, not to mention tooling and production cost to manufacture the parts. Once you have addressed the cooling issue, now you have to worry if you have altered emissions, here you go again with further testing costs.

Car needs to meet crash standards, same issues apply. Now you need to redesign the entire front end of the CTR vs Standard HB and subject it all to the same frontal collision testing. Not worth the cost for a limited number of models.

TCR car runs full sessions, podiums regularly, not seeing them stop after 5 laps for a cool down. Proof is in the working concept. TCR is not running a stacked setup, why would they change it from the stock layout if the stock layout did not have it's problems during testing. They moved to a more efficient layout without the need for crash testing certification, that production cars would require.

<Only guy proposing following proven track results from factory backed teams instead of making the radiator endlessly massive to compensate for an after-thought trim level car. I propose following the Honda racecar solutions and not "forum hunches". Everyone's solution so far is to just add more heat exchangers or increase their capacities until they overwhelm the thermal load, while I'm proposing increasing the thermal efficiency of current parts using redirected improved airflow. So far, 16 pages into this with no proven solution, only the hope C&R has made a radiator massive enough with enough working surface area to let me now track in anything under 80 degrees instead of 70 degrees, with members still reporting problems.

I get what you're saying. You've touched on a few points that clearly show you understand some of the limitations or roadblocks that may have been in place for Honda.

Despite that, there are reason we will probably never know as to why the stock system was built as it was(speaking from 2017 onwards, maybe even as far back as the FK2). Obviously the car was marketed in a certain way that made many people think it would be capable of immense track abuse, but at the end of the day we have to always remember that this car is a street car first before anything else.

With that said, I whole heartedly encourage you if funds available, to attempt at creating another solution. Taking a look at the TCR's front end in general, bumper on and off, some substantial changes would need to be made in order for the base FK8 to conform, which is going to cost you.

Additionally, I do not disagree with you that just throwing parts at the problem won't make it go away, or that simply mitigating it for twice as many laps is a proper solution. We've since learned that with all the people thinking giant intercoolers were a solution only to be proven very wrong, but this wouldn't have been found without people throwing parts at it. We also need to understand that those who have builds existing, it's going to be tough to go from something like that then back to scratch. We need someone with pockets like ipeefreely.

It's not that what you propose can't work, it's just that it's quite literally starting from ground zero on a street based car. Money is a limiting factor, for those at the top(also inner policitcs) and those and the bottom.

I think I rambled a bit.

Have you seen the Kevin boehm video when he touches on heat? The car being used was also the TC, so much closer to the road going car..

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