Civic Si Vs Civic CVT - Who would win?

[Ap1 George]

LOL! This is the CVT coupe I raced. He hung better than 2 TSP 2 Si I raced but maybe I was spinning bad when I raced him from 40 MPH. I was in one of his videos.

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[xjoshuax89]

If the cvt driver keeps it in auto drive mode and not those stupid paddle shifters it will win with equal mods, tune and fuel especially if both are stock turbo. The CVT will change ratio on the fly and keep the revs to the absolute peak power of what the stock turbo can offer which is around 5500 while the Si will have to rev past it and shift. I seen it happen with a phearable 2.5 Si get rocked by 2 different CVT fk7 on stock turbo ethanol tune. Now once we're talking about upgraded turbos on both sides the Si will always win due to superior fueling and being able to rev out all the way to utilize the higher flowing turbo.

On top of what I witnessed myself, I, myself have personally raced 2 different bolt on TSP 2 Si and 1 E30 tuned bolt on CVT coupe against my FK7 back when I was on Pure 450 E30. The results, I've put 5 or more cars against the TSP 2 Si and 2 cars against the CVT coupe and this was me banging gears shifting fast and flat foot shifting to keep boost between gears.

Problem is alot of the folks who have the paddles don't know how to properly utilize it to essentially brake boost and get the cvt to kick up the rpms quicker.

Its a bit tricky to do but using what the user Myx termed his "2-step" method, along with the up-shift/down-shift on paddles, you can brake boost on a roll and immediately get into the meat of the powerband. (I can probably bet that less than 5% of owners know how to do this.)

Scenario 1: Stock Si vs Stock CVT (no tune, no mods, 93 octane) (from dig)

The Si will win if the Si driver is good. However, alot of "drivers" aren't that good. So, CVTs tends to win more often.

Scenario 2: FBO stock turbo Si with e85 vs FBO stock turbo CVT with e85. (from dig)

Oddly enough you would think that the Si would wipe the floor but with this increased level, the onus on driver mod is even greater to properly take advantage of the torque. Often Sis will wheel top, slip and get a very poor launch. So once again, CVTs tend to win more consistently due to lack of good MT driver mod.

Scenario 3: Upgraded turbo Si with e85 vs Upgraded turbo CVT with e85 (from dig)

Si will win hands down. However, poor MT driver mod will allow CVT to get the edge off the line early.


The problem with alot of these comparisons and people doing "mexico" runs are doing roll races where the skill of the driver wildly fluctuates. In a roll race, the driver who knows how to properly brake boost and launch with a good reaction time will often be much faster even if their car is technically slower.

The power gap isn't so wide between the two cars, that it can compensate for poor driving/racing ability.

On my setup, I've waxed stock Rs on a roll because they were poor drivers and others I've had a pretty competitive race with them losing but with a respectable margin.

Then come to the drag strip, I would absolutely shlack several because they didn't know how to launch their car.

 

[Ap1 George]

Problem is alot of the folks who have the paddles don't know how to properly utilize it to essentially brake boost and get the cvt to kick up the rpms quicker.

Its a bit tricky to do but using what the user Myx termed his "2-step" method, along with the up-shift/down-shift on paddles, you can brake boost on a roll and immediately get into the meat of the powerband. (I can probably bet that less than 5% of owners know how to do this.)

Scenario 1: Stock Si vs Stock CVT (no tune, no mods, 93 octane) (from dig)

The Si will win if the Si driver is good. However, alot of "drivers" aren't that good. So, CVTs tends to win more often.

Scenario 2: FBO stock turbo Si with e85 vs FBO stock turbo CVT with e85. (from dig)

Oddly enough you would think that the Si would wipe the floor but with this increased level, the onus on driver mod is even greater to properly take advantage of the torque. Often Sis will wheel top, slip and get a very poor launch. So once again, CVTs tend to win more consistently due to lack of good MT driver mod.

Scenario 3: Upgraded turbo Si with e85 vs Upgraded turbo CVT with e85 (from dig)

Si will win hands down. However, poor MT driver mod will allow CVT to get the edge off the line early.


The problem with alot of these comparisons and people doing "mexico" runs are doing roll races where the skill of the driver wildly fluctuates. In a roll race, the driver who knows how to properly brake boost and launch with a good reaction time will often be much faster even if their car is technically slower.

The power gap isn't so wide between the two cars, that it can compensate for poor driving/racing ability.

On my setup, I've waxed stock Rs on a roll because they were poor drivers and others I've had a pretty competitive race with them losing but with a respectable margin.

Then come to the drag strip, I would absolutely shlack several because they didn't know how to launch their car.

Yep, this. Put it on “gear” or should I say cvt manual ratio selector mode and brake boost, once the race start then quickly switch to auto. This is a common thing when brake boosting automatic cars on rolls, a lot of supra owners do this.

 

[Jes_si562]

LOL! This is the CVT coupe I raced. He hung better than 2 TSP 2 Si I raced but maybe I was spinning bad when I raced him from 40 MPH. I was in one of his videos.

I think I seen it you where on a pures turbo upgrade right ?

 

[Ap1 George]

I think I seen it you where on a pures turbo upgrade right ?

Yeah I was still on Pure450, the 40 MPH starts had me spinning bad. Did much better on the 60 MPH starts.

 

[Jes_si562]

Yeah I was still on Pure450, the 40 MPH starts had me spinning bad. Did much better on the 60 MPH starts.

Yeah bro big difference

 

[Christianjwong]

how do you do the paddle brake boost, and i thought brake boosting is bad for our cvt's?

 

[bbeem]

I was considering starting a new thread of 6mt vs cvt gear ratios but I'll tag along here instead.

What is the targeted rpm on the cvt at something like 20% throttle? I never run below 2200 rpm in any gear. I don't short shift and usually cruze around 2600 rpm and depending on how deep I am in the throttle shift a little over 3000 rpm when accelerating at a normal speed. I believe the cvt targets much lower rpm than I am with light or moderate throttle. How much throttle or %tps.cmd are you at to run the rpm higher like 4-5krpm? Can you cvt guys and gals enlighten me.

 

[Christianjwong]

I was considering starting a new thread of 6mt vs cvt gear ratios but I'll tag along here instead.

What is the targeted rpm on the cvt at something like 20% throttle? I never run below 2200 rpm in any gear. I don't short shift and usually cruze around 2600 rpm and depending on how deep I am in the throttle shift a little over 3000 rpm when accelerating at a normal speed. I believe the cvt targets much lower rpm than I am with light or moderate throttle. How much throttle or %tps.cmd are you at to run the rpm higher like 4-5krpm? Can you cvt guys and gals enlighten me.

idk if this helps at all, but when im at freeway speeds 55mph here in Oregon my rpm is about 1800-2000 depending on driving conditions. However, if im in "SPORT MODE" bahahah what a laugh, my rpm is at like 2200-2300 @55mph. I'll take a look at my ktuner when i get a chance.

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