2.0l 2019 sport slow 0-60

[swah_fk7]

The premise of this thread is that he is in fact throttling the crap out of his car.

“The best CVTs out there” makes it sound like its something special. They are not designed for abuse, racing, spirited driving. They’re designed for grandma and for the groceries.

FBO, 93 Pump CVT Sport hatch here, my car launches from digs regularly, no slipping in any application, I am close to 300 lb tq.

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[frontlinegeek]

“The best CVTs out there” makes it sound like its something special. They are not designed for abuse, racing, spirited driving. They’re designed for grandma and for the groceries.

Quote me right. SOME of the best. Implying that they are more durable than the broad disdain and hatred of CVTs usually claims. There are indeed a lot of sad CVTs out there. I would in no way count Hondas in that rank, nor Toyota.

And no, they aren't designed for grandma. They are designed for CAFE, CARB and the former Obama administrations rules (As far as automobile use is concerned as CVTs have been in many other motorized vehicles for many decades). Rules so big and broad that they affect even Canadian buyers as our market is only 1:10 of the US market. They were once only used as a cheat to lower fuel consumption when the engines themselves were not capable of achieving great fuel economy (Subaru Justy, 1990s Nissans). Then the greenies caught up and here we are.

If, he is indeed "track daying" his car with every drive, then he is screwed. Not even a Hondamatic geared transmission will put up with that. Manual with an aftermarket clutch is the only route.

Also, spirited driving on occasion is fine. You are likely more into the bends than putting that much stress on the transmission from acceleration from a dead or near dead stop.

 

[frontlinegeek]

FBO, 93 Pump CVT Sport hatch here, my car launches from digs regularly, no slipping in any application, I am close to 300 lb tq.

I do believe that the turbos all have the transmission from the Accord in them so they are in effect, well overbuilt for the weight of the Civic and the power. The 2.0NA uses a different CVT from the turbos.

 

[gtman]

I do believe that the turbos all have the transmission from the Accord in them so they are in effect, well overbuilt for the weight of the Civic and the power. The 2.0NA uses a different CVT from the turbos.

You are absolutely correct.

 

[garoto]

Quote me right. SOME of the best. Implying that they are more durable than the broad disdain and hatred of CVTs usually claims. There are indeed a lot of sad CVTs out there. I would in no way count Hondas in that rank, nor Toyota.

And no, they aren't designed for grandma. They are designed for CAFE, CARB and the former Obama administrations rules (As far as automobile use is concerned as CVTs have been in many other motorized vehicles for many decades). Rules so big and broad that they affect even Canadian buyers as our market is only 1:10 of the US market. They were once only used as a cheat to lower fuel consumption when the engines themselves were not capable of achieving great fuel economy (Subaru Justy, 1990s Nissans). Then the greenies caught up and here we are.

If, he is indeed "track daying" his car with every drive, then he is screwed. Not even a Hondamatic geared transmission will put up with that. Manual with an aftermarket clutch is the only route.

Also, spirited driving on occasion is fine. You are likely more into the bends than putting that much stress on the transmission from acceleration from a dead or near dead stop.

Okay, “some of the best.” Which are the other some? And which are the ones that aren’t ones of the best? I just don’t think defending the CVT as something other than an appliance is a good idea. It doesn’t feel good to drive it, it doesn’t sound good, it doesn’t last under stress - it is not designed for that. The op is describing what Si’s and Type R’s are made for.

 

[Bru87tr]

There are a few pretty fast CVTs on this forum. Just sayin.

 

[JohnnyL]

So I bought a civic 2019 sport CVT a month ago, not expecting it to be fast or anything, but not expecting to be slow either. I finally installed an aem cai today and combined it with ktuner (set throttle response 2). And the results are, well, pretty bad. I consistently get 10.5 seconds for 0-60 with some results being as slow as 11s.
This just doesn't look right to me, is the car actually this slow or am I doing something wrong?

Would be nice to find someone with the same car and race it 0-60

 

[alexlab]

Thanks for the replies. I feel like there is something different with my car after reading all these posts. I do not have an L in my transmission, matter of fact I never even heard of this before.
Also for all of you saying that the CVT will give out, are you referring to the belt of the engine itself?

 

[frontlinegeek]

Thanks for the replies. I feel like there is something different with my car after reading all these posts. I do not have an L in my transmission, matter of fact I never even heard of this before.
Also for all of you saying that the CVT will give out, are you referring to the belt of the engine itself?

On many of the CVTs in the Civics, there is PRNDSL for all the selections. On geared Hondas it would be either PRND21 or PRND3L.

As for giving out, it would be the transmission for sure before the engine and specifically the belt if Hondatas experience with their Touring Civic is representative (Belt metal became part of the cone surfaces). Most Honda engines have between 50% and 100% overbuild right from the factory (Some even far more like the K24). Every attempt to tune will be different so that is a ballpark. Some people, for instance, have tuned their 1.5T really high and not had any issues and others have blown a connecting rod right through or at least bent one and then caused other failures in the engine. But these are tunes where they are indeed adding in excess of 50% more power than stock. Unless you are adding a turbo onto your 2.0NA, there is no way you are going to reach those power levels.

 

[frontlinegeek]

Okay, “some of the best.” Which are the other some?

Anything they have made in the last 8 to 10 years.

And which are the ones that aren’t ones of the best?

Any of their CVTs that didn't use a traditional torque converter. (See Weber Auto for a good example)

I just don’t think defending the CVT as something other than an appliance is a good idea.

The exact same things were said about planetary gear automatics. You are free to think and feel as you wish. I only know that 20 months in on this modern CVT has been a perfectly fine experience (my wife had a Justy when we were married so I know what those CVTs were like...)

It doesn’t feel good to drive it, it doesn’t sound good, it doesn’t last under stress - it is not designed for that.

Personal feelings and baseless assertions are not facts. Furthermore, if you don't like the linear acceleration of a CVT powertrain, boy are you screwed when everything goes electric. There is one gear forward and one gear back.

The op is describing what Si’s and Type R’s are made for.

No, no he is not. He is simply trying to have as much fun as he can afford. Reality may hold him back some as the Si is the best overall route to a lot of fun out of the box and a lot more opportunity for adding even more fun.

 

[alexlab]

On many of the CVTs in the Civics, there is PRNDSL for all the selections. On geared Hondas it would be either PRND21 or PRND3L.

As for giving out, it would be the transmission for sure before the engine and specifically the belt if Hondatas experience with their Touring Civic is representative (Belt metal became part of the cone surfaces). Most Honda engines have between 50% and 100% overbuild right from the factory (Some even far more like the K24). Every attempt to tune will be different so that is a ballpark. Some people, for instance, have tuned their 1.5T really high and not had any issues and others have blown a connecting rod right through or at least bent one and then caused other failures in the engine. But these are tunes where they are indeed adding in excess of 50% more power than stock. Unless you are adding a turbo onto your 2.0NA, there is no way you are going to reach those power levels.

Well that shouldn't be a concern of mine since it seems that I am already at -10% power

 

[garoto]

Anything they have made in the last 8 to 10 years.



Any of their CVTs that didn't use a traditional torque converter. (See Weber Auto for a good example)



The exact same things were said about planetary gear automatics. You are free to think and feel as you wish. I only know that 20 months in on this modern CVT has been a perfectly fine experience (my wife had a Justy when we were married so I know what those CVTs were like...)



Personal feelings and baseless assertions are not facts. Furthermore, if you don't like the linear acceleration of a CVT powertrain, boy are you screwed when everything goes electric. There is one gear forward and one gear back.




No, no he is not. He is simply trying to have as much fun as he can afford. Reality may hold him back some as the Si is the best overall route to a lot of fun out of the box and a lot more opportunity for adding even more fun.

Reliable in the last 8-10 years under the 0-60 stress we are talking about? Proof is needed. I am not questioning CVTs as reliable appliances to do an A-B duty.

Automatics have way more years of development than do CVTs and to this day, they break left and right.

When it comes to personal feelings, and attempting to defend a CVT for 0-60 purposes or whatever, I think it’s pretty objective that it feels like shit. It takes like a second for the thing to just get outta the hole. If that feeling excilierates you, good on you.

Yes he is, he is a candidate for those cars. Ironic that breaking a tranny and paying for mods that get you nowhere near a stock Si, is considered “as much fun as he can afford” - the issues described in this thread don’t sound fun. But hey, that’s subjective too right? Spend your time trying to get your CVT going from 10 seconds to 8.5 with a manual stopwatch. It’s a losing battle. Buy an Si and you’ll get everything you want, including an integrated 0-60 timer in the cluster. But you say those cars aren’t for him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[gtman]

You might be surprised how good the CVT feels with the 1.5T combined with the TSP Stage 1 tune. Tuner Derek Robinson seems to have a lot more faith in this CVT than you do.

I've driven manuals for over 25 years and was skeptical of this CVT, but Honda has done a good job with it.

 

[garoto]

You might be surprised how good the CVT feels with the 1.5T combined with the TSP Stage 1 tune. Tuner Derek Robinson seems to have a lot more faith in this CVT than you do.

I've driven manuals for over 25 years and was skeptical of this CVT, but Honda has done a good job with it.

I owned a 17 CR-V AWD Touring and drove it for 20,000 miles. It’s great at what it does, but I wasn’t trying to beat trap speeds with it.

 

[alexlab]

Reliable in the last 8-10 years under the 0-60 stress we are talking about? Proof is needed. I am not questioning CVTs as reliable appliances to do an A-B duty.

Automatics have way more years of development than do CVTs and to this day, they break left and right.

When it comes to personal feelings, and attempting to defend a CVT for 0-60 purposes or whatever, I think it’s pretty objective that it feels like shit. It takes like a second for the thing to just get outta the hole. If that feeling excilierates you, good on you.

Yes he is, he is a candidate for those cars. Ironic that breaking a tranny and paying for mods that get you nowhere near a stock Si, is considered “as much fun as he can afford” - the issues described in this thread don’t sound fun. But hey, that’s subjective too right? Spend your time trying to get your CVT going from 10 seconds to 8.5 with a manual stopwatch. It’s a losing battle. Buy an Si and you’ll get everything you want, including an integrated 0-60 timer in the cluster. But you say those cars aren’t for him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

That's all fun and games and I do recognize that the SI would have been a better fit.
However, I am curious as to whether I was the only one who signed a contract when buying his car which prevents me from just driving it back to the dealership and picking a different set of keys

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