Defective Clutch 2017 Honda Civic Si - Honda Refuses to fix under warranty

[ElementalHonda]

I just talked to the dealership that currently has my car (no work has been done at this dealership) and one of the mechanics said that you can compare the engine speed and the speed of the clutch output to see if there was slippage but they don't want to do any investigating until I pay since Honda labeled my car that they are not going to pay for anything with my car. They had a rep from Honda look at it and he agreed with the dealership with the high rev signals. I talked to the dealership it is at right now and the mechanic said that those signals only show up if the RPM goes above 10,000. I know for a fact that this did not happen. I don't know how to fight this anymore guys. It seems like that one reading that is not even true is making everyone say it's abuse and voiding my warranty. I asked the mechanic if a mechanic outside of Honda was able to look at the high rev signals and he said that mechanics outside of Honda don't have access to them. He also said that he could look at it IF the other dealership didn't delete it (at a price). How is a dealership allowed to delete evidence like that? That makes no sense.

New thought. Link them to this thread. Also let us all know what dealership you're working with so they lose business. I'm sure they'll perk right up and fix your clutch once future business is on the line. Unless they can provide you with evidence that you actually did damage such as an overrev code, they're SOL.

I would assume they have a rev limiter in place. Looking around on forums it seems to be 7-8k. Wouldn’t the high 10k rev mean their electronics failed? Anyway, just a thought.

Inertia my friend. The power is already there, no electronics are going to stop an object in motion without an equal and opposite reaction. The only thing that could cause that opposite resistance is the engine braking, your actual brakes, or you slamming into something. So if you downshift at high speeds to a gear that can't handle it. Bye bye car.

Sponsored

 

[curt d]

Inertia my friend. The power is already there, no electronics are going to stop an object in motion without an equal and opposite reaction. The only thing that could cause that opposite resistance is the engine braking, your actual brakes, or you slamming into something. So if you downshift at high speeds to a gear that can't handle it. Bye bye car.

My bad..... I completely missed that post about the alleged downshift. I wouldn't have posted otherwise

 

[PyroMoto]

I contacted Honda support on twitter thinking they would give me suggestions on what to do and they said that they cannot override what Honda Corp decided (obviously) but when I asked what I should do to appeal this, they said I should look in the Civic Si warranty booklet. I did just that and on page 2, it reads:

"Step 3 - If you disagree with the decision reached by the staff of Honda Automobile Customer Service, you may request to have your case reviewed in an independent forum run by the National Center for Dispute Settlement (NCDS). You may file a claim at any time by calling NCDS toll-free at 877-545-0055."

Think this is something I should do? They say that the "purpose of NCDS is to resolve disputes between vehicle manufacturers and their customers. NCDS's decision makers are impartial third parties who will listen to both the customer and the manufacturer and decide what can be done to resolve the disagreement" which is what I want but unfortunately, they say that most cases are decided within 40 days. I cannot go 40 days without a car...

There is nothing in the warranty booklet about high RPM or anything about the clutch

 

[PyroMoto]

New thought. Link them to this thread. Also let us all know what dealership you're working with so they lose business. I'm sure they'll perk right up and fix your clutch once future business is on the line. Unless they can provide you with evidence that you actually did damage such as an overrev code, they're SOL.

The dealership has already had a Honda Rep look at the car so it is out of the dealerships hands even if they wanted to fix the clutch so they don't lose business. That is what they are claiming. They are claiming that there was an overrev code that I downshifted from 5th to 1st at 7omph but it is going to take them a week to show the evidence for this statement they said.

 

[Deleted member]

I am going to give my blunt opinion based on what I have read in the thread:

It seems the black box on the vehicle is telling Honda that at some point the engine hit 10k rpm and they do not want to repair it under warranty for that reason.

The bottom line is they are not going to say "oh okay we'll repair it the black box must be mistaken" if the owner says "nope it never hit 10k rpm I promise" no matter how many times the owner says it.

5th to 1st is an unlikely downshift but I do not know if it is impossible and I am not interested in trying- but 4th to 2nd could put the engine into such a high rev state and is a doable money shift.

You might as well try that NCDS appeal thing at this point.

 

[PyroMoto]

I am going to give my blunt opinion based on what I have read in the thread:

It seems the black box on the vehicle is telling Honda that at some point the engine hit 10k rpm and they do not want to repair it under warranty for that reason.

The bottom line is they are not going to say "oh okay we'll repair it the black box must be mistaken" if the owner says "nope it never hit 10k rpm I promise" no matter how many times the owner says it.

5th to 1st is an unlikely downshift but I do not know if it is impossible and I am not interested in trying- but 4th to 2nd could put the engine into such a high rev state and is a doable money shift.

You might as well try that NCDS appeal thing at this point.

I want to know why they believe the black box on such an unlikely thing though. You'd think they'd look further into it.Do they think I'm purposely trying to ruin my car?

 

[charleswrivers]

A possible course of action:

Do the appeal.

Get the data w/in a week. Wait maybe a month or more for the appeal with the data you'll be provided.

Shop around for a clutch replacement in the meantime... looking for a reputable independent shop with a quality aftermarket clutch. If you can't wait for the car to be fixed... then at you still can opt to not spend $2500 for a weak OEM clutch.

So long as there wasn't some unknown instance (ie joyride during a test drive before you bought it that went sideways) if this independent 3rd party sides with you, you may have recourse to receive compensation for your repairs. I don't know why the dealer would lie. Before you request the appeal, I would make sure the dealer knows that is your intention.

If you can't go w/o your car for a long time, then you may have to come out if pocket to turn around a repair the dealer is refusing. In no way is $2500 a good value for the job, or the parts they'd use.

 

[shihabp79]

I don't know for certain that there is a mechanical lockout. But when I am coasting to a stop and attempt to put the transmission into first while holding down the clutch pedal, I am not able to get it into gear until the MPH get lower than 15 MPH. I am calling BS, 70 mph drop in 1st, WTF EVER, get outta here!!!

You're hitting your synchros doing that, stop. They're made out of brass. If you want to slow down and downshift through the gears, learn how to double-clutch to take the stress off the gears. Especially 1st gear at 15 mph speeds.

 

[Fk8 4343]

I want to know why they believe the black box on such an unlikely thing though. You'd think they'd look further into it.Do they think I'm purposely trying to ruin my car?

The code coming from the black box is preventing them from doing a warranty repair since they can't send the bill to Honda. It doesn't matter whether they believe it or not. It is just there and it seems like the dealer doesn't care at this point. If the over-rev code is an error then they would have to prove that to Honda to get reimbursed for the repair.

Try the arbitration through NCDS and convince them that the over-rev code is incorrect. Obviously if the car went over 10,000RPM there would be other signs of damage instead of a burnt clutch. Get a mechanic to inspect your car and document it for the arbitration.

 

[Fanoflive]

You're hitting your synchros doing that, stop. They're made out of brass. If you want to slow down and downshift through the gears, learn how to double-clutch to take the stress off the gears. Especially 1st gear at 15 mph speeds.

Thank you for the advice. This was something I attempted for this discussion. I personal leave it in 3rd until I am about to come to a stop.

 

[PyroMoto]

This is what I've decided to do thanks to many of you guys giving your opinions. Just want to thank the people who believe me.

I'm going to wait for the dealership it's at right now to give me an estimate for the clutch replacement (they said they're going to try and get it as cheap as possible) and if they can't get it to a reasonable price, I'm going to have it brought to a 3rd party mechanic to document and repair the clutch. I am also going to have the dealership it is at right now give me all of the logs that show the speed of the engine, the speed of clutch output, and whether or not the clutch was pressed down so I can prove to NCDS that the clutch was indeed slipping and it wasn't me riding the clutch. I'm also going to make sure that I get all of the documentation they currently have on my car so I can see what is true and what is not true so that I can have this current dealership look into the logs and see why these false accusations were made. I'll update you guys through this nightmare.

 

[PyroMoto]

If I was to go for a third party clutch, do you guys have any suggestions?

 

[360glitch]

This is what I've decided to do thanks to many of you guys giving your opinions. Just want to thank the people who believe me.

I'm going to wait for the dealership it's at right now to give me an estimate for the clutch replacement (they said they're going to try and get it as cheap as possible) and if they can't get it to a reasonable price, I'm going to have it brought to a 3rd party mechanic to document and repair the clutch. I am also going to have the dealership it is at right now give me all of the logs that show the speed of the engine, the speed of clutch output, and whether or not the clutch was pressed down so I can prove to NCDS that the clutch was indeed slipping and it wasn't me riding the clutch. I'm also going to make sure that I get all of the documentation they currently have on my car so I can see what is true and what is not true so that I can have this current dealership look into the logs and see why these false accusations were made. I'll update you guys through this nightmare.

FYI, the OEM clutch is garbage all around. If you have to pay for one, do yourself a favor and go for an aftermarket option.

 

[PyroMoto]

FYI, the OEM clutch is garbage all around. If you have to pay for one, do yourself a favor and go for an aftermarket option.

The only reason I wouldn't go with an aftermarket one is because this dealership is doing the investigating for me (since Honda dealers are the only one with access to the black box according to them) and they won't install an aftermarket one. If they don't give me a really good deal, I definitely am going to go with an aftermarket one.

 

[360glitch]

The only reason I wouldn't go with an aftermarket one is because this dealership is doing the investigating for me (since Honda dealers are the only one with access to the black box according to them) and they won't install an aftermarket one. If they don't give me a really good deal, I definitely am going to go with an aftermarket one.

I suspect the “black box” is nothing more than an ECU code accessible and clearable with the standard scanner that a Honda technician would have.

Sponsored