2016 Civic engine recall - piston pin snap ring issue affecting some VINs

[RDMerBC]

So I was waiting to post this with fingers crossed until I was out the door with papers signed, but I managed to get my dealership to take my EX with Sensing back. I was affected by the Engine recall as well as the Surging issue described in another thread. I took it in multiple times and after getting no answers I wrote a letter to the General Manager. He contacted me and we looked at various ways to resolve the issues. After a few days of back and forth and a few meetings I ended up getting him to take the car back if I was willing to let him put me in a trim level up. I ended up walking out the door with a brand new EX-T with Sensing today for $21800 with no loss taken on the other car's purchase price and he included the 8 year 120,000 mile full Honda Care Extended Warranty in the price.

The irony is that I chose the 2.0 in the first place because the 1.5 Engine was new and untested so I went for more reliability. The General Manager was an absolute joy to work with - he once even met me at my office since he was in the area, rather than me having to come down. With the extended warranty included I was happy to give the 1.5 a shot, knowing that any issues will be covered. After experiencing some frustration with this dealership initially, I have to say they truly went to bat and worked hard to re-earn my trust and loyalty as a costumer. I agreed to finance through them and they got me a 1.25% rate to put icing on the cake.

I'm not sure how isolated my experience was, but in case there are any other 2.0 Civic owners out there who wish they'd have some options perhaps this will help. Major shout out to Great Lakes Honda in Akron, OH! If you're in their area and looking for a vehicle please consider them! PM me if you'd like further details!

Well done. It's good to hear that someone has had their major issues addressed in such a forthright fashion. Kudos to your general manager at Great Lakes Honda.

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[Keith]

I doubt the cars that have had such major engine repairs could be sold without telling the customers the factory sealed engines had been torn down to the pistons and repaired. Would they still be "factory new," which is what we all believe we are buying? If the effected cars or engines were returned to the factory for repair or replacement, it seems there would be more confidence in them as being "new." But still.

I could be wrong, but this looks like shaky legal ground for the automaker. Depends on the small print, I suppose. But I assume most buyers would avoid any engine that was not certified as "factory new."

I would guess that most prudent potential buyers who visit this thread would be cautious about ending up with one of the cars that had been torn down by Honda technicians at dealerships. Many would feel that Honda should be obligated to inform potential buyers if the engine had been torn down for this repair. Without these assurances (essentially, Honda fessing up), many may just wait for the 2017 models to roll around.

I have to agree with this. The boroscope inspection is definitely an inconvenience new owners shouldn't have to deal with but I'm not worried about that...only about what it finds. IF it's not good then that puts the situation on a whole higher level in my mind. Concerning waiting until 2017: knowing what I know now I'd be lying if I said I would have bought mine anyway. But I did buy it and really like it a lot. There's a lot of anxiety right now, myself included, because no one knows, including Honda, just how many engines have an actual problem. They likely have a reasonable idea how many "potentially" might have a problem. It just seems that with close to 3,000 members on the two main forums that, as time passed and miles racked-up (and if it's actually a widespread problem) we'd be getting the first posts of owners reporting unusual engine noise, or worse, having to get their cars flat bedded to dealers. Until I start seeing that I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[PS3]

So I was waiting to post this with fingers crossed until I was out the door with papers signed, but I managed to get my dealership to take my EX with Sensing back. I was affected by the Engine recall as well as the Surging issue described in another thread. I took it in multiple times and after getting no answers I wrote a letter to the General Manager. He contacted me and we looked at various ways to resolve the issues. After a few days of back and forth and a few meetings I ended up getting him to take the car back if I was willing to let him put me in a trim level up. I ended up walking out the door with a brand new EX-T with Sensing today for $21800 with no loss taken on the other car's purchase price and he included the 8 year 120,000 mile full Honda Care Extended Warranty in the price.

The irony is that I chose the 2.0 in the first place because the 1.5 Engine was new and untested so I went for more reliability. The General Manager was an absolute joy to work with - he once even met me at my office since he was in the area, rather than me having to come down. With the extended warranty included I was happy to give the 1.5 a shot, knowing that any issues will be covered. After experiencing some frustration with this dealership initially, I have to say they truly went to bat and worked hard to re-earn my trust and loyalty as a costumer. I agreed to finance through them and they got me a 1.25% rate to put icing on the cake.

I'm not sure how isolated my experience was, but in case there are any other 2.0 Civic owners out there who wish they'd have some options perhaps this will help. Major shout out to Great Lakes Honda in Akron, OH! If you're in their area and looking for a vehicle please consider them! PM me if you'd like further details!

Nice - glad it worked out!

 

[daroza]

I doubt the cars that have had such major engine repairs could be sold without telling the customers the factory sealed engines had been torn down to the pistons and repaired. Would they still be "factory new," which is what we all believe we are buying? If the effected cars or engines were returned to the factory for repair or replacement, it seems there would be more confidence in them as being "new." But still.

I could be wrong, but this looks like shaky legal ground for the automaker. Depends on the small print, I suppose. But I assume most buyers would avoid any engine that was not certified as "factory new."

I would guess that most prudent potential buyers who visit this thread would be cautious about ending up with one of the cars that had been torn down by Honda technicians at dealerships. Many would feel that Honda should be obligated to inform potential buyers if the engine had been torn down for this repair. Without these assurances (essentially, Honda fessing up), many may just wait for the 2017 models to roll around.

I'm in that boat right now. I put the down payment on an LX and am scheduled to receive it in 2 weeks. If it was torn down and rebuilt I don't want it because I don't consider it new anymore. That's the rub, can they actually sell a rebuilt engine as new? When I saw the dealer a week ago (before I knew about this) they never mentioned anything about a stop sale/recall. I will be contacting them shortly but what are they obliged to say/do?

 

[Keith]

I'm in that boat right now. I put the down payment on an LX and am scheduled to receive it in 2 weeks. If it was torn down and rebuilt I don't want it because I don't consider it new anymore. That's the rub, can they actually sell a rebuilt engine as new? When I saw the dealer a week ago (before I knew about this) they never mentioned anything about a stop sale/recall. I will be contacting them shortly but what are they obliged to say/do?

It might not be in the VIN recall range.

 

[dick w]

That's the rub, can they actually sell a rebuilt engine as new? When I saw the dealer a week ago (before I knew about this) they never mentioned anything about a stop sale/recall. I will be contacting shortly but what are they obliged to say/do?

They haven't rebuilt even one engine yet. An inspection is hardly "rebuilding". Not all 2.0L engines are affected. If the car you want won't be available for two weeks, it seems very likely it post-dates discovery/fix of this problem at the factories. If the car that has your name on it is not affected, they have no obligation to do anything. If it is affected, in the US, they are obliged not to sell it to you until the recall is complete, no matter which steps that takes. (Inspection, or inspection and rework.) Presumably the obligation in Canada is similar.

 

[StevieOntario]

It might not be in the VIN recall range.

I'm in that boat right now. I put the down payment on an LX and am scheduled to receive it in 2 weeks. If it was torn down and rebuilt I don't want it because I don't consider it new anymore. That's the rub, can they actually sell a rebuilt engine as new? When I saw the dealer a week ago (before I knew about this) they never mentioned anything about a stop sale/recall. I will be contacting them shortly but what are they obliged to say/do?

They don't have to say anything, the stop sale cars will be parked on the back of the lot, the one you are getting was likely built after the suspect VIN's.

 

[daroza]

They haven't rebuilt even one engine yet. An inspection is hardly "rebuilding". Not all 2.0L engines are affected. If the car you want won't be available for two weeks, it seems very likely it post-dates discovery/fix of this problem at the factories. If the car that has your name on it is not affected, they have no obligation to do anything. If it is affected, in the US, they are obliged not to sell it to you until the recall is complete, no matter which steps that takes. (Inspection, or inspection and rework.) Presumably the obligation in Canada is similar.

Who said an inspection is rebuilding an engine?

At the time I saw the dealer he never said anything about a recall, which doesn't inspire confidence in me that he will be upfront. Since I wasn't aware of the issue at the time there was no reason for me to ask about it. And when we talked about a delivery date he said it should be good. At the time that made me laugh because his online inventory said the cars were on the lot. Now I've sent him an email asking to confirm if the date is still good and mentioning the recall but he hasn't yet replied.

 

[dick w]

Who said an inspection is rebuilding an engine?

You used the term rebuilt twice. Maybe I misunderstood what you were talking about. The first, and, for most vehicles most likely only, step is an inspection to see if any snap rings are missing or mis-installed. If none are found, they button the engine back up and that's the end of it.

 

[dick w]

Another manufacturer with a stop sale and a recall on a '16 model.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM491706/RCMN-15V787-4263.pdf

 

[PS3]

Another manufacturer with a stop sale and a recall on a '16 model.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM491706/RCMN-15V787-4263.pdf

I'm glad you are on this forum. You have a calming influence because of your mature outlook on the situation.

 

[david1pro]

dick w lives in Hawaii... how could he not be the mature calm voice.

 

[Mannyp93]

Ok so before you all read this i want you understand I am more upset about the miscommunications going on then the actual Recall. so I went to the dealer and the first service tech says there's a recall on your vehicle we're going to have to boroscope it. So then I asked the sales manager if it would be possible to do a vehicle swap. He says no because there is depreciation that has factored in already so it would not be an even swap then he goes on to say that all 2016 civics 2.0 and 1.5t's will be subject to the recall i said you're wrong its only 2.0's. He said they VINs are coming out in waves and that my car last week may have not been affected but as of the last "wave of VINs dished out on the 9th i was". I said that sounds like total bullshit to me because now you're selling cars that might be recalled? So on my way out I asked a different service tech if my vehicle was affected by this recall he looked up my VIN and it says that my vehicle is eligible for inspection not necessarily that it is recalled the TSB regarding this from Honda just states 2016 Civics VIN range to be determined.

 

[Keith]

I'm glad you are on this forum. You have a calming influence because of your mature outlook on the situation.

 

[camhabib]

People are getting way too worked up about this, especially considering how little we know. Is it an inconvenience? Sure. Would I try to return my car / request they double my warranty / start writing nasty emails? Probably not.

Most likely what's going to happen is they're going to inspect the assembly using a minimally invasive procedure which involves dropping the pan and using a scope. If this bothers you, sell your car now and buy a bicycle because a timing belt change requires a whole lot more work and risk than that. If the engine is found to be faulty, most likely they'll just order a new short or long block and swap motors. The time it takes to do a full tear down and rebuild at the dealer level is likely cost prohibitive, and the motors will just be sent back to the factory where they'll be refurbished. An engine out is NOT a big ordeal. Most high end cars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) actually require you to remove the engine for any serious work. If you've ever seen how complex the mechanics on a 911 are and how little space you have to work on them, you'd understand that taking a block out of a Civic is a walk in the park.

So everyone just relax a bit and at least wait to see what the story is before you start your crusade.

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