Weird Issue - Dropped off at dealer

[MichelleK]

It makes me think of a harness issue if packets aren't reaching key components. I don't know how the network is cabled/connected under the hood. I did mention communication to them, but when they see a woman telling an alleged 'service advisor' that they need to dig deeper it didn't seem to go over well....

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[chattanoogaR]

Most mechanics are actually just part swappers at the dealership.

Sadly pretty much all are these days.

 

[MichelleK]

So...they SWEAR it's fine....will find out shortly.

 

[DRUSA]

So...they SWEAR it's fine....will find out shortly.

I'll hook up my FK8 to the HDS today, pretty sure I should be able to see a mode change in there under data list. They told us we are currently under a pay increase freeze so my 'eff's given meter" for work today is low lol, i'll do this instead.

 

[kefi]

but when they see a woman telling an alleged 'service advisor' that they need to dig deeper it didn't seem to go over well....

Dealerships tend to not like diagnosing shit for warranty because it doesn't bring in the money and it could take a lot of manhours that would make way more elsewhere. Every single time I've gone to a dealership they try to get over on me 2 or 3 ways, and I have to just tell the service advisor that I'm not an idiot and I work on these cars professionally, so please cut the crap.

These guys aren't used to dealing with something like the Type R, nor their owners that tend to be engineers of some sort or another. They just see a Type R and go 'oh yeah, we sold one of those for $60k, this must be one of those idiots, lets see how much money I can make'

 

[Fountainhead]

There is absolutely a difference between the three modes, ESPECIALLY Comfort mode. The steering changes, the throttle changes and the suspension is soft and squishy.
As has been said already get away from those guys.

 

[MichelleK]

So I got the car back...all the SAs I dealt with seemed to go into hiding...go figure. It seems fine now and they swear they didn't do anything - however they reset the ECM because my oil life jumped magically to 100 percent. It's not noted on the paperwork anywhere.

 

[Phy]

So I got the car back...all the SAs I dealt with seemed to go into hiding...go figure. It seems fine now and they swear they didn't do anything - however they reset the ECM because my oil life jumped magically to 100 percent. It's not noted on the paperwork anywhere.

The equivalent of turn it off, turn it back on again.

 

[MichelleK]

You could never get away with that where I work. So I'm kind of annoyed. Pulling the ECM fuse was going to be what I was going to try before calling the other dealership...

 

[DRUSA]

It makes me think of a harness issue if packets aren't reaching key components. I don't know how the network is cabled/connected under the hood. I did mention communication to them, but when they see a woman telling an alleged 'service advisor' that they need to dig deeper it didn't seem to go over well....

With lemon law cases growing all the time, we MUST be able to duplicate the customer concern. We get 3 strikes or attempts to repair your concern. If the tech throws an ECU at it, hoping to make you feel better and it doesn't fix it, that 1 strike. He throws a BCM at it next, thinking its BCAN related, thats 2 strikes, he throws the R mode switch at it now. After that you can lemon law the car. We have to be able to duplicate your concern, if we can't duplicate it or feel that it is a vehicle characteristic, we must return the car until we can duplicate it. It's super frustrating, but it's all legal b.s.

 

[MichelleK]

I don't think this is a lemon issue as we don't really have that up here.

I just feel like there should be some objective criteria that can be used to evaluate if the system is working as expected - I push (+R) and then I can measure what happens to the suspension while it's at rest. That kind of thing. Same with the torque on the steering. My perception that it's an issue should not be as important being able to demo that it's working as designed with hard data.

I may as well wish for a unicorn....

I'm NOT an expert on this but does the steering get tighter the faster you go or is it set to be more direct from the minute you hit +R? I'm starting to even doubt myself now. Now that I've looked at what they gave me they claim 'the steering feel only changes when you are 'driving faster'.

 

[davemarco]

I don't think this is a lemon issue as we don't really have that up here.

I just feel like there should be some objective criteria that can be used to evaluate if the system is working as expected - I push (+R) and then I can measure what happens to the suspension while it's at rest. That kind of thing. Same with the torque on the steering. My perception that it's an issue should not be as important being able to demo that it's working as designed with hard data.

I may as well wish for a unicorn....

I'm NOT an expert on this but does the steering get tighter the faster you go or is it set to be more direct from the minute you hit +R? I'm starting to even doubt myself now. Now that I've looked at what they gave me they claim 'the steering feel only changes when you are 'driving faster'.

I thought for a long time that my steering had stopped responding to the flip from Sport to +R Mode (kinda still occasionally wonder). I felt that it had originally gotten tighter immediately from 0 mph once I flipped to +R mode, and after I hit some road debris one day, it had suddenly switched to all modes exhibiting the same light steering at low speeds, with Sport and +R being the same over 10 mph, where it started to stiffen. I had also felt like the car had originally immediately resisted any shift in steering angle from 0 degrees, and that I now had a small dead zone to either side before it weighted up. I had no codes, and figured that it must be mechanical, so I went ahead and replaced nearly all of my front suspension with aftermarket upgrades (except the dampers). No change.

That was over a year ago, and I've since come to accept that I must have been mistaken about how it originally was.

@DRUSA , were you ever able to hook up the car to HDS to see if there's a clear reading on whether the signal from the switch is reaching the EPS motor and/or dampers?

My last ditch idea is to have the dealer reflash my EPS motor using the protocol that I found in the Service Guide. Since the 2021 Limited Edition R has a revised EPS map (and the same steering rack), I may just wait until that hits the dealer's systems and have them flash that. Worst case, there was never any issue, I'm crazy, and now I get to enjoy a slightly stiffer/more responsive steering setting.

 

[MichelleK]

Replacing essentially the entire front end for no change in feel - ouch. It's amazing how much we feel about things subjectively and how it impacts our perception of the car. That's why I was wondering if there's a way to test objectively to either confirm or deny the same thing you tried to solve with replacing parts.

I just wanted to say everyone's been great with the responses and It's been educational, thanks.

 

[DRUSA]

@DRUSA , were you ever able to hook up the car to HDS to see if there's a clear reading on whether the signal from the switch is reaching the EPS motor and/or dampers?

I hooked up the HDS to my own 2018 FK8, nowhere in the sub-systems can you view the actual mode selections. All you can see is the R Mode switch movement of UP or DOWN to test switch operation, but it will not display what mode the vehicle is in. Checked in the active shock systems, ABS, PGMFI, body control (gauge cluster), nothing. All you can see is raw data but no modes.

I can feel changes between modes in my stock 2018 CTR, most noticably ride quality over washboard roads between comfort and sport.

For any odd telematics issues I revert back to a hard battery reset. This is disconnecting the battery cables and touching the cables together for 10min to discharge any capacitors, same can be achieved by disconnecting for 10min as well. I fix about 90% of all BCAN/audio/HFL issues that way, Honda's way of resetting the modem.

 

[davemarco]

Replacing essentially the entire front end for no change in feel - ouch. It's amazing how much we feel about things subjectively and how it impacts our perception of the car. That's why I was wondering if there's a way to test objectively to either confirm or deny the same thing you tried to solve with replacing parts.

I just wanted to say everyone's been great with the responses and It's been educational, thanks.

From what I recall, the Service Guide recommends the use of a digital spring scale pulling against the steering wheel to test steering effort, though I think that was more to make sure that the EPS is providing enough assist at idle. I suppose that you could use the same tool to measure the effort required to turn to the same degree at the same speed (say 12 mph) between all three modes, but you'd need a closed course and a way to measure your steering angle while driving (to ensure consistency in your testing).

Also, I haven't seen a spring scale in real life since high school, so there's that lol.

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