I think I messed up... Test drove a GTI today!

[civicryan]

Hi guys,

So I accidentally popped into the VW/BMW Dealer (Directly next to my local Honda dealer) today. LOL.. THen happen to recognize one of the senior sales people there. He's like what are you doing here. I said i wanted to look at the Golfs. ... Before I knew it he pulls up a White GTI with performance package and Autobahn package. All the bells and whistles. ... I said well, i guess i can test drive that before checking out the TSI's. .. (bad mistake)

That car is bad. very bad. Felt very German/European. Solid. and powerful! ... Makes our 1.5T feel a little light in the boots. lol

Bad News: I realized there are other compacts with some flare out there to consider.

Good News: I realized the back seats were too cramped. (had my 5yr old son in his carseat in the back, not much room back there) though he did fall right to sleep with the sound of that engine/exhaust tune. ha. ... the sport seats were a little to narrow, and definitely wasn't the type of economy car i should be focused on. ... They showed me the numbers. basically that car was listed at around 33k msrp. , and around 31k invoice. they were willing to give me invoice plus 1500 (competitor cash). .. so good deal , but not the direction i should be going. so gracefully walked away with the excuse i need to take my son home to put him down for a nap. ... and now i am more sure my next car is a Civic.

cheers.

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[benjaminh]

Have you ever owned a VW before? If so, you probably remember the frequent trips to the dealer before and after warranty. That's a big difference between a Civic and a GTI. And to be fair, the real comparison would be to the Civic Si, which won't be available for another c. 6-9 months.

You'll also save c. $300 a year on gas with a 2016 Civic compared to a GTI.

VW's are usually fun to drive when they run, but....

 

[RedTouringMA]

My Dad had a Rabbit with Turbo, it was nothing but trouble.
Many of my friends own VW and nothing but trouble.
I want my car to be with me, not at the dealership service department lol
Honda all the way for me!

 

[goflyakuite]

I've owned a handful of VW's over the years...

1984 Rabbit GTI
1987 GTI 16V
1997 Jetta GLS
2003 Jetta GL
2013 Jetta SE

I've enjoyed all of them for different reasons. Generally speaking they have each been mostly reliable. I have had issues with some of them but nothing that I would say was systemic or simply from bad design. I think my tastes have changed over time and so have my needs. Smaller things in the interior and the basic ride are now more important to me as I basically drive 25-30 miles back and forth commuting to/from work. My days of a spirited cruise along the lakeshore are rare....little spare time to do such things.

I have more issues with VW's ethics with the defeat device-gate than I do with the quality of their vehicles.

At this point in my life, Honda is an easy choice.

 

[Newflyer3]

Yeah, you're comparing a GTI to a non Si Civic, clearly the VW is going to win on power on the Civic was going to win on space... All the points you discussed are sort of known well before walking into the dealerships...

 

[civicryan]

Have you ever owned a VW before? If so, you probably remember the frequent trips to the dealer before and after warranty. That's a big difference between a Civic and a GTI. And to be fair, the real comparison would be to the Civic Si, which won't be available for another c. 6-9 months.

You'll also save c. $300 a year on gas with a 2016 Civic compared to a GTI.

VW's are usually fun to drive when they run, but....

I don't have a lot of experience with VW to be honest. I had a 2003 jetta 1.8T, picked up used as a commuter (extra car) for about a year around 7 years ago. Its served its purpose at that time. Was fun to drive. I lived in Oregon near mountains so it handled well through those winedy roads. but it did have a couple of odd things i have to fix when i first got it. i remember being suprised how much it cost. but nothing too crazy (like 400 bucks or something like that; computer stuff/ censors, etc). But yeah, i have heard they are expensive to maintain over the years. if i got a car like that (but i'm not) it would be for a lease, and returned before warranty went out. I am looking forward to the practicality the civic will give me, the fuel economy (as you mention), tons of features at this price point, and a little fun along the way.

I've owned a handful of VW's over the years...

1984 Rabbit GTI
1987 GTI 16V
1997 Jetta GLS
2003 Jetta GL
2013 Jetta SE

I've enjoyed all of them for different reasons. Generally speaking they have each been mostly reliable. I have had issues with some of them but nothing that I would say was systemic or simply from bad design. I think my tastes have changed over time and so have my needs. Smaller things in the interior and the basic ride are now more important to me as I basically drive 25-30 miles back and forth commuting to/from work. My days of a spirited cruise along the lakeshore are rare....little spare time to do such things.

I have more issues with VW's ethics with the defeat device-gate than I do with the quality of their vehicles.

At this point in my life, Honda is an easy choice.

Looks like you've had quite a few VWs and some good experience with them. I see many of them on the road, so they must be doing something right. For me i was mainly curious why there prices were higher for the Golf's than many other compact cars. .... but i'm alot like you. i drive about 20 miles each way for my work commute and want economy and comfort a little more than just performance and stiffness.

Yeah, you're comparing a GTI to a non Si Civic, clearly the VW is going to win on power on the Civic was going to win on space... All the points you discussed are sort of known well before walking into the dealerships...

Yeah I knew that stuff going in. but was just curious about the GTI. i really wanted to get a feel for the non GTI Golf. but they didn't have any SEs or SELs , just the basic S, and those didn't really get me excited. then the salesman pulled up that GTI with the Performance and Autoban package. lol.. things changed and i had to atleast take it for a drive. FOr the past few years i was thinking my next car would be a hatchback or a small suv for flexibility with being able to haul bigger items than a trunk could hold, etc. ... so that was also part of the reason i wanted to check the Golf out. I also have considered waiting for the 5 door hatchback civic. ... but i think what i confirmed yesterday was that hatch backs are a shorter car. so even though you get the room when you fold the back seats down, you lose alot of room in the back seats; including leg room. ... So i believe the sedan is probably the better choice for me at this time. ... thanks for the reply

My Dad had a Rabbit with Turbo, it was nothing but trouble.
Many of my friends own VW and nothing but trouble.
I want my car to be with me, not at the dealership service department lol
Honda all the way for me!

I hear ya. i have known people that have had issues w/ VWs too.

but to be fair some of these issues could happen to any car. I had a 2005 Honda Accord EXL that the transmission went out 3000 miles after the Certified Preowned Warranty ended at 103k miles. ... that was a $2400 bill. and that left a bad taste in my mouth for hondas for a little while. .... but when we picked up the CRV 6 months ago, i decided to give honda another chance. ... plus i'm going to stick with newer cars and warranties from now on, so that should avoid the big heartaches. lol

 

[takemorepills]

The GTI is the most reliable VW. The Golf that it's based on has pretty bad reliability. Honda's new car trouble average is 15/100 which can include infotainment issues along with real issues. The GTI average problems is 22/100, of which 50% is infotainment/trim issues. I think VW as a whole is like 53/100, near the bottom 1/3 of reliability ratings. Mini is far worse than anyone.
GTI enthusiasts know VW is an unreliable brand, and the theory is that the heavier duty GTI/R drivetrain is leading to better ratings. It is what it is. GTI owners are more than willing to throw a stage 2 tune on which invalidates the drivetrain warranty.

Going just off reliability surveys, which includes infotainment issues, don't be surprised to see 2016 CivicX being reported as unreliable also, even though aside from infotainment issues the CivicX will probably be extremely reliable.

Also remember horsepower breaks things. The GTI makes a ton more power than rated. And a 2.0T Si will probably also make enough power to break stuff which will affect the reliability ratings.

 

[civicryan]

The GTI is the most reliable VW. The Golf that it's based on has pretty bad reliability. Honda's new car trouble average is 15/100 which can include infotainment issues along with real issues. The GTI average problems is 22/100, of which 50% is infotainment/trim issues. I think VW as a whole is like 53/100, near the bottom 1/3 of reliability ratings. Mini is far worse than anyone.
GTI enthusiasts know VW is an unreliable brand, and the theory is that the heavier duty GTI/R drivetrain is leading to better ratings. It is what it is. GTI owners are more than willing to throw a stage 2 tune on which invalidates the drivetrain warranty.

Going just off reliability surveys, which includes infotainment issues, don't be surprised to see 2016 CivicX being reported as unreliable also, even though aside from infotainment issues the CivicX will probably be extremely reliable.

Also remember horsepower breaks things. The GTI makes a ton more power than rated. And a 2.0T Si will probably also make enough power to break stuff which will affect the reliability ratings.

thanks for the info. i was unaware of most of this.

 

[HondaMan]

If anyone comes in and is thinking about a VW compared to a Honda, I always tell them to go check service prices on the VW.

Things such as oil changes, etc., and compare them to what they are on the Honda!

I just went and checked a local VW dealer, and their oil change/tire rotation "special" is $69.95. It stated some models may be higher!

I just check our Honda dealership, and our oil change special is $44.95

 

[RedTouringMA]

If anyone comes in and is thinking about a VW compared to a Honda, I always tell them to go check service prices on the VW.

Things such as oil changes, etc., and compare them to what they are on the Honda!

Not to mention the lack of reliability with a VW

 

[civicryan]

If anyone comes in and is thinking about a VW compared to a Honda, I always tell them to go check service prices on the VW.

Things such as oil changes, etc., and compare them to what they are on the Honda!

I just went and checked a local VW dealer, and their oil change/tire rotation "special" is $69.95. It stated some models may be higher!

I just check our Honda dealership, and our oil change special is $44.95

Yes, I agree with you. I enjoyed my test drive of the GTI. I liked that it had the option for the automatic transmission (will explain) option also for its sporty version of the golf. But i did see some negatives with long term reliability and price of repairs. I didn't even consider cost of regular maintenance. Even though i love honda and think their new civic is going to be a top selling car for years to come; i went with a new Focus ST. for multiple reasons, but one of them being that they were able to waive alot (all charges: over mileage and small nics/scratches/damages/etc) of things i was going to need to fix in my 13 ford fusion lease i was turning in . and they were able to help me pay out the remainder of my lease. ... I have found that long term reliability is with these new ford cars are much better than vw (not as good as honda admitingly) .. plus like you mention regular service is much cheaper. My local ford dealer mails out a promo coupon every few months for a 10$ off express maintenance deal. so 49.99 discounted to 39.99 . this includes oil change, and check on many components, along with tire balance and rotation. ... VW would be much higher.

So i am happy with my purchase. Really love this little peppy compact hatchback. I look forward to honda coming out with the 6 speed manual transmission for their new 1.5T engine along with the hatchback version.

Not to mention the lack of reliability with a VW

I agree RT, as i mentioned above. cheers.






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a couple of pics of my new car in case you were wondering:

 

[takemorepills]

Not to mention the lack of reliability with a VW

Says the owner of the most unreliable Civic generation ever. Let's not split hairs here, the CivicX infotainment issues, broken power windows and breaking side view mirrors. You guys are owners of a rushed product, with a frustrating un-Honda like ownership experience.
1500 miles on my GTI and not a single problem. No crazy infotainment bugs, no crashing of Android Auto, no rattling subwoofer. I browse these forums now silently lamenting the downturn of Honda.

If anyone comes in and is thinking about a VW compared to a Honda, I always tell them to go check service prices on the VW.

Things such as oil changes, etc., and compare them to what they are on the Honda!

I just went and checked a local VW dealer, and their oil change/tire rotation "special" is $69.95. It stated some models may be higher!

I just check our Honda dealership, and our oil change special is $44.95

The usual services aren't that much more expensive. You do pay a little more for the GTI, so not a big deal to pay a little more for service.

But, the DSG service is every 40k miles, and $900. My lease ends at 36k miles. Don't feel like $900 is a reasonable cost.

 

[takemorepills]

Yes, I agree with you. I enjoyed my test drive of the GTI. I liked that it had the option for the automatic transmission (will explain) option also for its sporty version of the golf. But i did see some negatives with long term reliability and price of repairs. I didn't even consider cost of regular maintenance. Even though i love honda and think their new civic is going to be a top selling car for years to come; i went with a new Focus ST. for multiple reasons, but one of them being that they were able to waive alot (all charges: over mileage and small nics/scratches/damages/etc) of things i was going to need to fix in my 13 ford fusion lease i was turning in . and they were able to help me pay out the remainder of my lease. ... I have found that long term reliability is with these new ford cars are much better than vw (not as good as honda admitingly) .. plus like you mention regular service is much cheaper. My local ford dealer mails out a promo coupon every few months for a 10$ off express maintenance deal. so 49.99 discounted to 39.99 . this includes oil change, and check on many components, along with tire balance and rotation. ... VW would be much higher.

So i am happy with my purchase. Really love this little peppy compact hatchback. I look forward to honda coming out with the 6 speed manual transmission for their new 1.5T engine along with the hatchback version.






I agree RT, as i mentioned above. cheers.






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a couple of pics of my new car in case you were wondering:

Congratulations on your new car, looks good in black!

I strongly considered a Mustang GT 5.0 AT base model. I couldn't deal with a MT trans in my traffic here, so the ST couldn't even be considered.

I never really liked VW, but the choices for turbocharged sporty cars with an AT are slim. The EVO was just discontinued, and it had REAL issues with it's DCCT. The WRX is not very modifiable with it's CVT. The Mustang didn't have a tolerable backseat.
The GTI had a DSG which has a real performance advantage over the 6MT, handles way more power, and behaves like a normal slushbox in "D" mode.

I am really looking forward to the new Si, as you can tell I'll be hoping it is a automatic of some kind that can match my GTI in performance (tough one). Also hope Honda works out these damn first year bugs. Never seen Honda have it so bad before!

 

[RakSiam]

you might want to look at the new MINI Clubman. Overall about the same size as the Golf. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed driving it. It gets expensive in a hurry when you start adding options. But it was fun to drive. I drive a MINI Coupe now and had a MINI Cooper hardtop before that so I've been in the MINI family for a while. But am considering some more affordable options with a little more space. We'll see once I start driving them what I think about them.

 

[astein244@]

If its below invoice and has dealer cash that's means its not selling.


The 2015 CRV and 2016 CRV havnt had $1 of dealer cash to date. Yet it is still the top of its class.


You get what you pay for.

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