Honda quality sorely lacking

[Marjammer]

My '13 Taurus has about 46k miles on it and I feel like I am driving around a ticking time bomb after reading about how the water pumps go out on them. I'm dying to get back into a Honda so bad, I'm driving a Ford.

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[Rickmeister 48]

Have to say that Honda quality is not what it use to be. I was thinking of buying my 2016 Civic ex l when the lease ends in April , but highly doubtful now. Driving from NY to Florida last month the AC was blowing warm air. I bring it to Honda of St Augustine . They find it's low on freon but cannot find any leak. They evacuate & recharge it and add a dye to it. They also did the oil dilution update (I didn't ask them to) Changing the ac control unit is part of that campaign. I notice the next day that my dual climate control is not working. On my second trip back to the dealership they realize that it's the wrong ac controller. Of course they have to order the part. On my third trip they install the correct one. All is good until a few days later when the AC is blowing warm again. On my 4th trip back they replace the condenser. ( I told them that it is a common part failure , but of course they never believe you.) It seems all service writers are trained to never admit that they have ever seen any particular issue. When the service manager tells me it is a bad condenser, I responded that they just happen to have that & the compressor in stock. ( Even though they claim they've never seen any fail) It's shameful that a common part like a condenser & compressor that normally give you many years of service are failing in large numbers in 16 civics. Now my Civic is at a dealership in Daytona Beach & I have a loaner car. The latest problem is that every conceivable malfunction light in the dashboard is lit up. It took them almost two hours to tell me that the vehicle speed sensor is bad. ( I think it may be the vehicle stability assist module) There are numerous complaints online about these malfunction lights coming on for no reason. Of course they have to overnight the part, that's why I took the loaner. In 3 months the warranty ends ,& I'd be stuck paying these parts changers to repair this vehicle. Pretty sure I'm done with Honda. If I wanted a relationship with the service manager I'd buy a Ford , Chrysler or Chevy.

My first civic,a 2017 ended up being a lemon. The new one,an 18 ext has been fine so far with a few exceptions of some head unit problems. I've had just about every brand there is other than need a and any high end stuff unexpected or BMW, and yea i had a few things here and there, but I NEVER had half the issues retributive things fixed as ive had with these two Hondas. They always deny being able to duplicate issues, have actually lied and been real shady at times and performed some pretty bad work on my car. There's plenty of threads on here about the quality of the paint and glass going downhill also.
Even after my terrible experience getting my lemon replaced, I was willing to get another Honda, but now that I'm getting the same kind of service with the few issues in having again, I won't buy another.

 

[87elco]

The thing is it got fixed for free..Honda doesn't make all their parts anymore some of their stuff is outsourced and rebranded. Every company does that if you do need an overpriced plebian car toyota is the way to go. I agree though a lot of these companies are banking on their names to sell cars and have taken shortcuts to make margins higher...partially to meet emissions standards

 

[AndyAndromeda-AUS]

In 3 months the warranty ends ,& I'd be stuck paying these parts changers to repair this vehicle

This is why you should live in Australia. Warranties do not have a defined time limit to them.

 

[clutchfear]

Have to say that Honda quality is not what it use to be. I was thinking of buying my 2016 Civic ex l when the lease ends in April , but highly doubtful now. Driving from NY to Florida last month the AC was blowing warm air. I bring it to Honda of St Augustine . They find it's low on freon but cannot find any leak. They evacuate & recharge it and add a dye to it. They also did the oil dilution update (I didn't ask them to) Changing the ac control unit is part of that campaign. I notice the next day that my dual climate control is not working. On my second trip back to the dealership they realize that it's the wrong ac controller. Of course they have to order the part. On my third trip they install the correct one. All is good until a few days later when the AC is blowing warm again. On my 4th trip back they replace the condenser. ( I told them that it is a common part failure , but of course they never believe you.) It seems all service writers are trained to never admit that they have ever seen any particular issue. When the service manager tells me it is a bad condenser, I responded that they just happen to have that & the compressor in stock. ( Even though they claim they've never seen any fail) It's shameful that a common part like a condenser & compressor that normally give you many years of service are failing in large numbers in 16 civics. Now my Civic is at a dealership in Daytona Beach & I have a loaner car. The latest problem is that every conceivable malfunction light in the dashboard is lit up. It took them almost two hours to tell me that the vehicle speed sensor is bad. ( I think it may be the vehicle stability assist module) There are numerous complaints online about these malfunction lights coming on for no reason. Of course they have to overnight the part, that's why I took the loaner. In 3 months the warranty ends ,& I'd be stuck paying these parts changers to repair this vehicle. Pretty sure I'm done with Honda. If I wanted a relationship with the service manager I'd buy a Ford , Chrysler or Chevy.

The truth is that all brands are cheaping out. Doesn't matter anymore. Except for new model year changeovers and the dismal truth of turbocharging little engines which is always problematic. Eventually all cars will be electric, soulless, and disposable. Hopefully cheap too. Once all the manufacturers got a taste of true Capitalism and corporate greed over consumer satisfaction, all bets have been off.

 

[typemismatch]

Interesting.. seen others report all Instrument panel lights come on and stay on.

So one Possible cause is a bad "Vehicle Speed sensor" .. - must get detected as "Bad" even when vehicle is parked (Speed = 0)

Thanks for the info ...

The computer checks for resistance or voltage values from each sensor, it doesn't matter if you are going 0 or 150. Some sensors have to fail checks a certain number of times before they trip the check engine light. If the sensor is important enough, it will put the computer into limp mode to prevent damage.

 

[rraayy3]

22K for a new car that gets 30+ MPG, while also providing storage/roominess and a nice "fun" element when desired is all I can ask for in a car. Considering the "average" car price now exceeds 30+K, I'm fine with what I've gotten.

Fun car, looks beautiful, with all the technology I want/need (Bluetooth+cell phone, no you don't "need" anything else).

 

[SCOPESYS]

The computer checks for resistance or voltage values from each sensor, it doesn't matter if you are going 0 or 150. Some sensors have to fail checks a certain number of times before they trip the check engine light. If the sensor is important enough, it will put the computer into limp mode to prevent damage.

While some sensors (very few) input directly into the Instrument Cluster, most of the lights come from data sent to the Panel over the C-BUS.
Those sensors that do go to the Instrument panel, do not directly drive any lights, but instead input to the onboard Microprocessor, whose output controls all the lights & the two side mechanical gauges.
WIth no (or corrupted _ C-BUs data, the lights stay on in their Initialized "Test) on state.

I have a Test Si Instrument panel in my Head Unit Test setup. At the moment, all I have is Power going to the Instrument Panel ( Battery & ACC+) SO, so far when I apply the ACC+, all the lights come on, and stay on.
Even the Center LCD display, remains blank with no backlight at the moment, even though it is getting a Video signal form the Head Unit.

Interesting stuff, especially if you are a Software/hardware engineer with an interest in car electronics.

 

[typemismatch]

While some sensors (very few) input directly into the Instrument Cluster, most of the lights come from data sent to the Panel over the C-BUS.
Those sensors that do go to the Instrument panel, do not directly drive any lights, but instead input to the onboard Microprocessor, whose output controls all the lights & the two side mechanical gauges.
WIth no (or corrupted _ C-BUs data, the lights stay on in their Initialized "Test) on state.

I have a Test Si Instrument panel in my Head Unit Test setup. At the moment, all I have is Power going to the Instrument Panel ( Battery & ACC+) SO, so far when I apply the ACC+, all the lights come on, and stay on.
Even the Center LCD display, remains blank with no backlight at the moment, even though it is getting a Video signal form the Head Unit.

Interesting stuff, especially if you are a Software/hardware engineer with an interest in car electronics.

I'm pretty well versed in fixing older Honda stuff, pre-CAN.

 

[Rickmeister 48]

22K for a new car that gets 30+ MPG, while also providing storage/roominess and a nice "fun" element when desired is all I can ask for in a car. Considering the "average" car price now exceeds 30+K, I'm fine with what I've gotten.

Fun car, looks beautiful, with all the technology I want/need (Bluetooth+cell phone, no you don't "need" anything else).

22K for a new car that gets 30+ MPG, while also providing storage/roominess and a nice "fun" element when desired is all I can ask for in a car. Considering the "average" car price now exceeds 30+K, I'm fine with what I've gotten.

Fun car, looks beautiful, with all the technology I want/need (Bluetooth+cell phone, no you don't "need" anything else).

I agree, but I also need a car that is going to last and not have go to the dealership every month for something wrong. I haven't had that yet with two civics now. BOTH were fine for the first several months,then the issues started happening. Someone mentioned well, it got fixed for free, but if there are so many problems right away, what happens when the warranty us up. It isn't gonna be fixed for free then

 

[hondatom]

Checkout http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Civic.html. The way they get their data is very interesting, and suggests the findings here are a great predictor to longer term reliability (vs. JD Power which focuses on early ownership).

The current generation of the Civic is rated extremely well, as well as the Corolla. Things like Mazda3 and Hyundai's are less good and certainly Subaru's and VW's are lemons.

 

[frontlinegeek]

Checkout http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Honda_Civic.html. The way they get their data is very interesting, and suggests the findings here are a great predictor to longer term reliability (vs. JD Power which focuses on early ownership).

I have been staring at their data for a few years as they keep increasing the depth of their database. Certainly good as a research tool. The only thing I have noticed is that you have to be sure to look at specific years and not just the model year ranges alone as there can be only one or two years that were super bad for one specific reason and then it distorts the average for that model generation.

 

[Scathe]

'16 Civic with 50k miles. Zero issues with the air conditioning. A handful of complaints online for literally the bestselling car in its class doesn't make an issue "common". If it was common then there'd be a recall, or at the very least it would be listed under "common problems with this vehicle" on websites that aggregate consumer reports and list such things (according to carcomplaints.com, there have been only 15 complaints encompassing both the AC and heat; of these, about half are only noise-related).

I personally have nothing to gain or lose from anyone joining or leaving the Honda 'family', and your choices are up to you, but I don't like general misinformation being spread just because someone is bitter about their atypical experience. There's nothing wrong with venting your frustrations or deciding to stop driving Hondas, but if you're going to assert that the 2016 Civic has the AC compressors & condensers going out all the time, please provide sources (other than the aforementioned handful of forum posts somewhere) to back it up. Give us a consumer reports site that lists it as a common issue, or at least tell us how you arrived at this conclusion.

As for the other issues you listed, it sounds like you had a problem with the AC, took it to a dealer who didn't address the actual problem, and then you started having other problems. Sounds to me like the dealer messed up your car. You had the unfortunate atypical experience of a bad AC unit, and the dealer not only didn't fix it, they also probably either messed up flashing the computer's firmware, or they shorted something in your electrical system or messed up your ground. Take it to a different dealer, one that knows what they're doing, because that dealer clearly doesn't.

 

[Dougyfd]

'16 Civic with 50k miles. Zero issues with the air conditioning. A handful of complaints online for literally the bestselling car in its class doesn't make an issue "common". If it was common then there'd be a recall, or at the very least it would be listed under "common problems with this vehicle" on websites that aggregate consumer reports and list such things (according to carcomplaints.com, there have been only 15 complaints encompassing both the AC and heat; of these, about half are only noise-related).

I personally have nothing to gain or lose from anyone joining or leaving the Honda 'family', and your choices are up to you, but I don't like general misinformation being spread just because someone is bitter about their atypical experience. There's nothing wrong with venting your frustrations or deciding to stop driving Hondas, but if you're going to assert that the 2016 Civic has the AC compressors & condensers going out all the time, please provide sources (other than the aforementioned handful of forum posts somewhere) to back it up. Give us a consumer reports site that lists it as a common issue, or at least tell us how you arrived at this conclusion.

As for the other issues you listed, it sounds like you had a problem with the AC, took it to a dealer who didn't address the actual problem, and then you started having other problems. Sounds to me like the dealer messed up your car. You had the unfortunate atypical experience of a bad AC unit, and the dealer not only didn't fix it, they also probably either messed up flashing the computer's firmware, or they shorted something in your electrical system or messed up your ground. Take it to a different dealer, one that knows what they're doing, because that dealer clearly doesn't.

Sorry if the truth about bad ac condensers & compressors has upset some loyal Honda customers. There are many complaints on this issue, but it seems to only be the 16 model year. Honda of Canada had these parts on a national backorder. Dealers ran out of freon due to trying to diagnose where the leak was from. If there's a dozen or so people reporting these problems on forums, you can multiply that number for the people that have experienced these failures but never complain online about it. Honda won't recall these cars as it's not a safety issue & the warranty is running out on the 16's. As for my experience with two Florida dealerships, they did good work. It was Honda that sent them the wrong ac controller which prevented the dual zone temp controls from working. And the reason all the malfunction lights were in alarm mode was due to a defective left rear wheel speed sensor, hence my original assertion of Honda quality slipping. And I don't care who manufactured the faulty parts, it's still Honda choosing to install these parts.

 

[Brisco]

Mines a 2018 and every conceivable warning light and sensor problem popped up 2 weeks ago. I dropped it off at the dealership Monday last week and haven’t heard from them yet.

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