2018 Premium Audio System

[Nitroturtle]

I tried doing sub+front right and it does sound better than only the sub input, but definitely still lacking somewhat. Tempted to try left+right now after reading @Royalz_2o9's post.

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[Royalz_2o9]

I tried doing sub+front right and it does sound better than only the sub input, but definitely still lacking somewhat. Tempted to try left+right now after reading @Royalz_2o9's post.

try it bro you wont be disappointed
Also make sure the crossover on amp is set to 80-90 i find 80 to be the sweet spot for getting the best basssssss

 

[Nitroturtle]

try it bro you wont be disappointed
Also make sure the crossover on amp is set to 80-90 i find 80 to be the sweet spot for getting the best basssssss

I haven't done this yet, but plan on testing it out later tonight if I have time. With that said, it seems odd that it would make that much difference. Do you notice any loss of the low end frequencies? I expected a single front channel would have all that's needed. Any idea why it makes such a difference connecting both front channels?

 

[integra15]

Like I mentioned, do not use the rears as input for anything outside of fill. They are tuned to have a very high drop across all frequencies. (I've read the 200 page specification, by whoever it was who makes the head unit I forgot, Apline, Mitsubishi or another Japanese mfr.). Honda treats them as satellite speakers. (This goes for all modern Hondas and Acuras at this point) Interestingly there is different tuning on each input (XM/AM/FM,Aux), all are useless. Cars with leather even have a different tune than cloth, its surprising the amount of adjustments they did.

 

[Royalz_2o9]

I haven't done this yet, but plan on testing it out later tonight if I have time. With that said, it seems odd that it would make that much difference. Do you notice any loss of the low end frequencies? I expected a single front channel would have all that's needed. Any idea why it makes such a difference connecting both front channels?

No notice of any frequencies lost, the front speakers are full range so they play all frequencies from 20hz to 20k hz as varified by crutchfield support before I did the install

 

[SCOPESYS]

Like I mentioned, do not use the rears as input for anything outside of fill. They are tuned to have a very high drop across all frequencies. (I've read the 200 page specification, by whoever it was who makes the head unit I forgot, Apline, Mitsubishi or another Japanese mfr.). Honda treats them as satellite speakers. (This goes for all modern Hondas and Acuras at this point) Interestingly there is different tuning on each input (XM/AM/FM,Aux), all are useless. Cars with leather even have a different tune than cloth, its surprising the amount of adjustments they did.

Is that 200 page specification available to the public to read. ?
Would find it of great interest ....

 

[integra15]

Unfortunately not available online. Just imagine pages and pages of frequency response graphs. In every conceivable scenario. That was more than half of the manual.

 

[Nitroturtle]

Unfortunately not available online. Just imagine pages and pages of frequency response graphs. In every conceivable scenario. That was more than half of the manual.

Based on what you read, which speakers do you believe would be best to tap into for sub, front right/left?

 

[SCOPESYS]

I tried doing sub+front right and it does sound better than only the sub input, but definitely still lacking somewhat. Tempted to try left+right now after reading @Royalz_2o9's post.

You COULD do Left + Right on the left input and SUB on the right input.

To do both Left and Right (Front) on same terminals of the LcI2, you will need qty 4 1K Ohm resistors (1/4 watt resistors are OK).

DO NOT CONNECT either of the LEFT or Right speakers wires directly together.

splice the resistors into the last part of the wires that will go to the Lci2

Put 1K resistors on the ends of the + and - Front Left wires, and on the ends of the + and - Front Right wires.

Then connect the + Resistor ends together to the LC2i left +
Then connect the - Resistor ends together to the LC2i left -

Connect the + and - sub leads to the Lc2i right + & -

=======================
ie

Front Left + ------- 1K Resistor ---------> Lc2i Left +
Front Left - ------- 1K Resistor ---------> Lc2i Left -

Front Right + ------- 1K Resistor ---------> Lc2i Left +
Front Right - ------- 1K Resistor ---------> Lc2i Left -
==========================================
Sub + -------------------------------------> Lc2i Right +
Sub + --------------------------------------> Lc2i Right -
==========================================

Note: You will have 2 wires on the Lc2I's Left +
and 2 wires on the Lc2i's Left -

* Not actually tried it myself (yet) , but in theory, should work .

 

[SCOPESYS]

Some people have claimed that the Poor Audio with the Premium Audio system is due to compression of certain frequencies as one turns the volume up.

What Speakers get Compressed, and where did this information come from ?
Is it just "assumed" to account for what one thinks they are hearing ??

Does not seem to be the AMP doing any compression.

Maybe, if the effect does exist, its the speakers "running out of audio linearity", when driven hard.
(Under-spec speakers ?? -- nice way of saying RUBBISH/JUNK Speakers !! )

It's not the Front Side or Rear Side AMP that is doing any compression (I just measured them)

(3) Front Left & Right Speaker Channel

(4) REAR Left & Right Speaker Channel

Is it the SUB ? or maybe the Center ?? (not measured yet)

 

[shoegazer]

Some people have claimed that the Poor Audio with the Premium Audio system is due to compression of certain frequencies as one turns the volume up.
)

Maybe they should have said 'attenuation' or something similar.

What I believe that I hear is just a changing of the EQ curve that is determined by volume. To my ear... it's a automatic loudness/drive eq sort of thing designed to keep a constant frequency response at all volume levels. But sheesh... I cannot stand it. The ear fatigue (for me) is just awful.

If it really is some digital modeling process thing; just let us turn that shit off, Honda. It's like folks who post 'upscaled' widescreen videos and 'super stereo' versions of mono, 4:3 source material on YouTube.

Anyway... keep digging. I hope that you can unravel it.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Maybe they should have said 'attenuation' or something similar.

What I believe that I hear is just a changing of the EQ curve that is determined by volume. To my ear... it's a automatic loudness/drive eq sort of thing designed to keep a constant frequency response at all volume levels. But sheesh... I cannot stand it. The ear fatigue (for me) is just awful.

If it really is some digital modeling process thing; just let us turn that shit off, Honda. It's like folks who post 'upscaled' widescreen videos and 'super stereo' versions of mono, 4:3 source material on YouTube.

Anyway... keep digging. I hope that you can unravel it.

Well, so far, I have not found what is being compressed .. if anything really is.

Maybe it's the SUB ? I'll probably measure that next.

I am starting to fear that any processing MAY be dependent on the source, as one Member has already suggested, and since I am generating my test signals Digitally, from within an app on the HU, maybe that source type is not overly processed.

I could see, in an ideal world, a benefit from processing say AM radio, differently to HD Radio.

If that is the case, then what I am doing becomes pretty meaningless, as all that would then really matter would be the end result of the soundscape in the car.

One would need a different DSP profile for each of the Honda Processed sound sources, to be able to adjust all audio from any source to your liking.

Don't know at this point, but it is interesting delving into into it, and at least seeing what is really there, even if changing it is not so easy.

My Gut is telling me, that for most owners, the Biggest BANG for your buck, is going to be better speakers, and maybe better source material
..Most Mp3 recordings sound really crappy once you have heard the same music played, recorded from source as Flac.

 

[Royalz_2o9]

Well, so far, I have not found what is being compressed .. if anything really is.

Maybe it's the SUB ? I'll probably measure that next.

I am starting to fear that any processing MAY be dependent on the source, as one Member has already suggested, and since I am generating my test signals Digitally, from within an app on the HU, maybe that source type is not overly processed.

I could see, in an ideal world, a benefit from processing say AM radio, differently to HD Radio.

If that is the case, then what I am doing becomes pretty meaningless, as all that would then really matter would be the end result of the soundscape in the car.

One would need a different DSP profile for each of the Honda Processed sound sources, to be able to adjust all audio from any source to your liking.

Don't know at this point, but it is interesting delving into into it, and at least seeing what is really there, even if changing it is not so easy.

My Gut is telling me, that for most owners, the Biggest BANG for your buck, is going to be better speakers, and maybe better source material
..Most Mp3 recordings sound really crappy once you have heard the same music played, recorded from source as Flac.

Should be the sub, when increasing volume from 0-40 you notice it doesn't get much louder from previous increment of one after about 28, it seems to peak out about that volume which honda did to keep it from blowing

 

[xenon04]

I have a stock 452W 10 speakers audio and that's a big difference between listening the same station on FM or Android Auto app
I'm listening high quality songs on spotify and that's much better than mp3/FLAC
I think that Android Auto is the best source on our HU

 

[SCOPESYS]

Should be the sub, when increasing volume from 0-40 you notice it doesn't get much louder from previous increment of one after about 28, it seems to peak out about that volume which honda did to keep it from blowing

Thanks... That will be my next Speaker Channel measurement then.

In my test rig, I have the Honda sub amp channel connected to a reasonable 12" sub speaker in an Enclosure. (Not the Pathetic excuse for a Sub, fitted to the Si)
I do not hear a lot coming out of it, but can FEEL and SEE the speaker cone moving, and more than anything, feel it through the floor.

Most of the Audible Bass comes from the front side speakers, and my measurement show that there is no Bass compression with increased volume with that amp's channel.
(at least when playing a single tone -- this might be a difference !!)

Good news is that with the Function Generator app, I can produce two independent signal sources, or different frequencies, amplitudes, and phases.

Playing two different tone should not upset the AMP, (provided it does not limit) but I can see it upsetting the speaker if the speaker limits.

When I get a pair of "Donated" Front Side speakers later this week . - (Thanks so much to a generous Donner - I can determine if there is any perceived compression taking place caused by the speaker itself,

I can "Imagine" that if those side speakers are playing Bass in the 100-300hz range, and then they are driven hard with a 40Hz signal, that their cones my LIMIT travel with the 40Hz signal, and then during the peak of those 40Hz tones, there is no more available movement to fully follow the higher base frequencies.

(My current theory, yet to be verified or disproved with practical measurement)

If true, then its an inadequate Speaker failing causing the effect, and not the actual electronic amplifier, or a poor choice of Crossover point between Sub & Front side speakers (which I am strongly suspecting).

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