Pros and Cons of the Type R

[xcivic]

the turbo on the CTR spools very quick so not sure what you mean it takes a lot of revs to get it spooling. If you mean lots of load, that's every turbo.

I get like instant 10+ lb of boost at 2500 and past 20 at 3000+ if i give it some load ... that's not a slow spool at all.

VTEC is off during turbo spool to help spool the turbo at lower rpm and is on once it hits high load to remove the exhaust gasses faster.
It's also on during cruising for better efficiency.

How is that possible? Every review I've seen also says the turbo lag is quite high.

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[Salespunk]

I may be coming from the opposite end of the spectrum compared to some people. My previous few cars were M4/M5/750Li/M3/911/etc.

Pro's

• It makes everything from going to get groceries to twisty mountain roads a riot
• There are not many cars that can pull away from it in the curves. Have stuck with friends in GT3's and M5's without issue (straights are a different story)
• The performance is very accessible and it never feels like the car is trying to kill you (ahem, M5)
• Steering, seats, transmission are all fantastic
• Power is more than adequate for the chassis and intended purpose
• You can use the performance on the street without feeling like you are going to commit vehicular manslaughter
• It gets a ton of attention and constant questions/comments
• Much more rare than just about every other car on the market, I have only seen 2 or 3 others in SD
• Honda reliability, 120K bumper to bumper warranty for $1K, are you kidding me?
• Ride is incredibly smooth for the performance, my wife's X3 M40i that we got rid of this weekend was way more harsh
• Lightweight and you can feel it

Con's

• Needs a switchable exhaust system. Stock is great for commuting, but sucks a$$ when you are out having fun
• Wheel offset is horrible, why didn't they put on 9's or 9.5's or increase the offset by 20 mm's stock?
• Infotainment system is horrendous unless you use Android Auto or CarPlay
• 20's are too big for this car, should have come stock with 18's or 19's
• All of the attention comes from senior citizens, seriously like 5 discussions per week with older people especially women
• Lack of any creature comforts if you want them, no heated seats etc
• Feels a little "my first fast car!" for those of us that have been around the sun a few more times

That is about all I can think of. This car has reignited by passion for driving after getting burned out on M cars. So much so that I am considering spending the money on a GT3. The CTR is so good that I am having an internal argument on whether the Porsche is really worth an additional $100K. I haven't enjoyed driving a car this much since my '85 911, it is just engaging everywhere.

 

[Cornercarver]

Just swapped my '17 SI fir an '18 CTR- both Aegean Blue- last weekend. Loved the SI. Gave up mileage- the SI got 34.6 combined, a fifth seat, sunroof, heated seats, and a two foot smaller turning circle. I only miss the last item on that list. I don't miss the rev hang, rough cloth, smaller cargo space, smaller engine, HDMI exhaust, lesser brakes, no rev match, or thicker A pillars on the SI. And I live the looks if the CTR. Boy racer styling? I'm 64. And think it looks just fine. I did buy a seven year tire/rim warranty, since I plan on keeping the factory setup. AZ has pretty good roads and weather. Overall, these are two of the best all around cars made today, balancing fun and function. If you can swing it, get a CTR. If you can't, the SI is a heck of a great car in its own right. I would not take an RS in trade. Or even an M2 Comp. Or even a C8. But I wouldn't say no to borrowing them for a weekend...

 

[NapalmEnema]

How is that possible? Every review I've seen also says the turbo lag is quite high.

If someone told me there was a lot of turbo lag I would ask if they had driven the correct car, and if they actually knew how to operate a manual car lol.

Who are these people?

 

[.grimace]

If someone told me there was a lot of turbo lag I would ask if they had driven the correct car, and if they actually knew how to operate a manual car lol.

Who are these people?

No joke. Are they flooring it in 4th gear going 20mph?

 

[yargk]

On turbo lag I'll chime in as well. There is a lot less turbo lag and a lot more pull at lower rpms in my CTR compared to my old 2007 WRX. Night and day.

 

[tinyman392]

No joke. Are they flooring it in 4th gear going 20mph?

That's turbo/boost threshold problem, not a lag. Lag is the time it would take the turbo to go from low/partial spool to full spool/boost.

For example, say you're cruising at 60 MPH in 6th gear (turbo not spooling at all) and you drop down to 3rd gear. The time it takes for you to feel/hit peak torque would be the turbo lag. Another example would be say you are going to 55 in 2nd gear and shift to 3rd gear, you should be near or at full boost (based on threshold) after you shift. The time it takes the motor to hit full boost/torque would be the lag time. This latter example should take less time than the former. Personally in the former case (6th down to 3rd @ 60) I get maybe ½ second (noticeable) of lag while on a high rev downshift I'll feel ¼ second (barely noticeable).

That being said, the turbo lag is quite low on the Type R (though I wouldn't say it's non-existent). Note that I recently did get a PRL intercooler/exhaust, I haven't had time to test how that affects the turbo threshold or lag.

 

[.grimace]

That's turbo/boost threshold problem, not a lag. Lag is the time it would take the turbo to go from low/partial spool to full spool/boost.

For example, say you're cruising at 60 MPH in 6th gear (turbo not spooling at all) and you drop down to 3rd gear. The time it takes for you to feel/hit peak torque would be the turbo lag. Another example would be say you are going to 55 in 2nd gear and shift to 3rd gear, you should be near or at full boost (based on threshold) after you shift. The time it takes the motor to hit full boost/torque would be the lag time. This latter example should take less time than the former. Personally in the former case (6th down to 3rd @ 60) I get maybe ½ second (noticeable) of lag while on a high rev downshift I'll feel ¼ second (barely noticeable).

That being said, the turbo lag is quite low on the Type R (though I wouldn't say it's non-existent). Note that I recently did get a PRL intercooler/exhaust, I haven't had time to test how that affects the turbo threshold or lag.

ummm wow. I don't think you realize I was joking. This car has next to no lag so that is about the only way I could think of someone thinking they experience "lag"

 

[NapalmEnema]

That's turbo/boost threshold problem, not a lag. Lag is the time it would take the turbo to go from low/partial spool to full spool/boost.

For example, say you're cruising at 60 MPH in 6th gear (turbo not spooling at all) and you drop down to 3rd gear. The time it takes for you to feel/hit peak torque would be the turbo lag. Another example would be say you are going to 55 in 2nd gear and shift to 3rd gear, you should be near or at full boost (based on threshold) after you shift. The time it takes the motor to hit full boost/torque would be the lag time. This latter example should take less time than the former. Personally in the former case (6th down to 3rd @ 60) I get maybe ½ second (noticeable) of lag while on a high rev downshift I'll feel ¼ second (barely noticeable).

That being said, the turbo lag is quite low on the Type R (though I wouldn't say it's non-existent). Note that I recently did get a PRL intercooler/exhaust, I haven't had time to test how that affects the turbo threshold or lag.

Everything still feels instant in this car, driven properly. If you're going 60 and drop it to 3rd there should be little if any turbo lag I believe since you'd be +3k RPM it should just rocket out -

I have had a 2008 STI - 2013 GSR EVO - 2014 MR EVO - and a 2005 WRX

I'd say compared to any of the above, there is zero turbo lag on this car or it is so minimal as for it to be really nonexistent.

 

[tinyman392]

ummm wow. I don't think you realize I was joking. This car has next to no lag so that is about the only way I could think of someone thinking they experience "lag"

Everything still feels instant in this car, driven properly. If you're going 60 and drop it to 3rd there should be little if any turbo lag I believe since you'd be +3k RPM it should just rocket out -

I have had a 2008 STI - 2013 GSR EVO - 2014 MR EVO - and a 2005 WRX

I'd say compared to any of the above, there is zero turbo lag on this car or it is so minimal as for it to be really nonexistent.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here. Little to no lag isn’t zero lag in my eyes. Having less lag (a lot less lag) than other turbos I’ll believe, but having no lag compared to an NA motor, I do not. I didn’t feel immediate power after shifting from 6th to 3rd in the past. It’s always been almost immediate, but never immediate. I always have to wait that tick or two of time to get that power I should be getting with the car after shifting. It’s not long by any means and isn’t bad (for a turbo), but it is there.

Again, note this was before I upgraded my intercooler and exhaust. That has improved response in the car, but I haven’t had a chance to put the upgraded car in these situations since I really haven’t needed to do any of these maneuvers yet. But in stock form I definitely felt some form of lag. Again, short lived, but there; not enough (IMO) to detract any potential buyer though.

edit: when comparing to driving my friend’s stock NISMO Z, or my other friends iA, or even my old 4-banger Camry, after downshifting and the car getting into gear, there is an immediacy (in power delivery) to it that I definitely don’t get with the FK8. It’s a minute difference, but it is there IMO.

 

[Zeffy94]

Uh, if you try and mash the gas in say 2nd gear at like 2k RPM there is definitely lag before the car really starts to unleash it's power. I can count to about 1 1/2 seconds after pushing the pedal down further before the speed ramps up.

If you drive at or above 3K RPM all the time, sure, there's no lag. If I short shift to 2nd from 1st and mash the pedal I'm not going anywhere for at least a second or two.

 

[NapalmEnema]

Uh, if you try and mash the gas in say 2nd gear at like 2k RPM there is definitely lag before the car really starts to unleash it's power. I can count to about 1 1/2 seconds after pushing the pedal down further before the speed ramps up.

If you drive at or above 3K RPM all the time, sure, there's no lag. If I short shift to 2nd from 1st and mash the pedal I'm not going anywhere for at least a second or two.

Why would you ever 'mash the gas' at 2k? Always downshift and you eliminate what exists for a reason - there is no boost at 2k, the turbo hasn't spooled up yet and it's not the best for a car to hammer it at low RPM / High boost - so this falls under my 'driven properly' comment above -

driven properly there is no lag issue imo.

 

[Zeffy94]

Why would you ever 'mash the gas' at 2k? Always downshift and you eliminate what exists for a reason - there is no boost at 2k, the turbo hasn't spooled up yet and it's not the best for a car to hammer it at low RPM / High boost - so this falls under my 'driven properly' comment above -

driven properly there is no lag issue imo.

I agree to downshift, but if you're in 2nd gear and you need speed, surely you're not suggesting to try and downshift into 1st (which is hard as hell to get into at speed)?

 

[tinyman392]

I agree to downshift, but if you're in 2nd gear and you need speed, surely you're not suggesting to try and downshift into 1st (which is hard as hell to get into at speed)?

What you described isn't really lag though, that's turbo threshold which is something that all turbo vehicles have, the actual threshold (RPM) in which the turbo spools will obviously be different with different setups. Ours begins to spool around 2000-2500 but making peak torque until around 2500-3000 RPM. So that 1 ½ seconds you feel is the turbo spooling up to its threshold. Our turbo threshold would be between 2500-3000 RPM.

Turbo lag is the idea that if you're going from a situation where you're not producing boost (or at low boost) immediately into a situation where you would be past the threshold (low throttle @ 1500 RPM to full throttle @ > 3k RPM for example), the amount of time it takes for the turbo to not only spool up, but to allow for peak torque (@ that RPM) is going to be the lag time. In the CTR this time is actually very low; to the point where you really don't notice any while going up gears. A lot of members here don't notice any when going down gears either (< 2000 RPM to > 3000 RPM, for example). This is what I was commenting on when I said I felt a little bit of lag (it wasn't much, and I wouldn't consider it a con).

If you're cruising along at 3k RPM with a decent amount of throttle in (to keep speed), you should never feel any sort of lag since the turbo should be spooling already (it should give you comparable lag to an upshift which is absurdly low, assuming you even notice it).

 

[ehCobra]

Con's

• Wheel offset is horrible, why didn't they put on 9's or 9.5's or increase the offset by 20 mm's stock?

From what I have read, the wheels are tucked in so far for aero/drag purposes. Having the wheels so far inside the fenders makes for less wake/turbulence being produced by the wheels and disrupting the smooth airflow around the sides of the car. Who knows

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