Is it literally impossible to find an Si for under MSRP?

[lyfamily]

Here in central Pennsylvania, we had almost none (except for black). And 90% are coupes, no sedans. There are now a few (white, silver and modern steel). But, very few even within 150 miles of me. Dealers are not making great deals, either. I think it's a waiting game at this point. Stock will begin to catch up to demand. And, as South86 said, once the 2021 is announced that should help with getting a better deal. (Except we might want the 2021 at that point. lol).

True that man. Do you know when the 2021 will be announced?

Sponsored

 

[bbeem]

I usually go through Costco, but they can't go under MSRP for that car. I bought an Si a month ago from the Honda dealer in Everett WA for under MSRP. Just have to negotiate. Don't fall for their add-ons. Alarm, door edge guards, etc. That add 2k.

Why are door guards even a thing. Sick. I wouldnt have door guards or the clear coat stickers if you paid me. And they wanted $500 for those hidious clear stickers, wrinkles included!

Got $500 less than list and free $500 dealer ad ons; told them free or take them out because oem floormats and mudguards can be bought from Honda for less than $100. Slightly less than MSRP with no ad ons or walk.

 

[bbeem]

True that man. Do you know when the 2021 will be announced?

If it's 10th gen platform which it will likely be they'll just announce the trim and wheel update q4 and hit dealers late December. Probably no real change. Honda doesn't incentivize previous years so if you're at the end of the year it's best to wait for new model. Vs gm for example that releases next year model earlier and heavy incentive to get rid of last year's.

 

[ebatr24]

Sent you a PM

 

[lyfamily]

If it's 10th gen platform which it will likely be they'll just announce the trim and wheel update q4 and hit dealers late December. Probably no real change. Honda doesn't incentivize previous years so if you're at the end of the year it's best to wait for new model. Vs gm for example that releases next year model earlier and heavy incentive to get rid of last year's.

What’s gm?

 

[justasimpleman]

General Motors

 

[lyfamily]

General Motors

Ah, so you guys think once the 2021 is announced, the 2020s won’t drop in price at all?

 

[charleswrivers]

It's been 2.5 years... but my price was being negotiated around invoice... not MSRP, and a couple dealers bid around against each other and I think the final price came in just a little below invoice ($200?). They gave me the higher end of KBB good for my trade... and there was a couple grand of positive equity to throw at the price on top of that... plus the FL sales tax I didn't have to pay for the value of my trade (wouldn't be a factor for a OR car due to no sales tax). People have gotten much better deals than me... so mine is nothing to write home about but a couple thousand under MSRP. It's not a rare car that has a demand so high that they can't keep them on the lot... so I don't see any need to pay higher than invoice. Dealer will keep hold back and, if you have a trade and get KBB/Edmunds median value for it's condition... they're going to make a good couple grand reselling your trade as well. If you've got a beater... you might do well to resell on the side. Honestly, in OR, it may always work out better for private party sales at a higher price than trade due to the lack of any benefits in the trade value lowering sales tax you pay.

My first dealer offered what I owed on my trade... no equity so it was devalued by them and MSRP. It was a crappy deal that I dismissed immediately and walked out of the dealer when they tried to get me to sit and sweat of the whole "hey, let me go talk to my sales manager". I just left and said I'd send them and the competing dealers an offer and accept whoever did the best. I wasn't there to waste my time or anyone elses... I just wanted to pick my desired color... have it come with the OEM summers and have zero dealer add-ons where they nickel and dime you by over charging.

Just shop around. If you're serious about just going into a place and signing and taking a car home inside an hour (I think I was in and out for the winning dealer in 45 minutes) then someone will jump if they have the inventory. The only thing I'm not sure about is if the supply is low due to production/transportation delays. I'd assume sales are way down to where there's a bunch of '20s on the lot depreciating as they sit with '21 model year a few months away. When the '21s are out... any '20s have effectively depreciated an extra $1000 or so, based on their future resale value, and that lower value should reflect in their sale price.

 

[lyfamily]

It's been 2.5 years... but my price was being negotiated around invoice... not MSRP, and a couple dealers bid around against each other and I think the final price came in just a little below invoice ($200?). They gave me the higher end of KBB good for my trade... and there was a couple grand of positive equity to throw at the price on top of that... plus the FL sales tax I didn't have to pay for the value of my trade (wouldn't be a factor for a OR car due to no sales tax). People have gotten much better deals than me... so mine is nothing to write home about but a couple thousand under MSRP. It's not a rare car that has a demand so high that they can't keep them on the lot... so I don't see any need to pay higher than invoice. Dealer will keep hold back and, if you have a trade and get KBB/Edmunds median value for it's condition... they're going to make a good couple grand reselling your trade as well. If you've got a beater... you might do well to resell on the side. Honestly, in OR, it may always work out better for private party sales at a higher price than trade due to the lack of any benefits in the trade value lowering sales tax you pay.

My first dealer offered what I owed on my trade... no equity so it was devalued by them and MSRP. It was a crappy deal that I dismissed immediately and walked out of the dealer when they tried to get me to sit and sweat of the whole "hey, let me go talk to my sales manager". I just left and said I'd send them and the competing dealers an offer and accept whoever did the best. I wasn't there to waste my time or anyone elses... I just wanted to pick my desired color... have it come with the OEM summers and have zero dealer add-ons where they nickel and dime you by over charging.

Just shop around. If you're serious about just going into a place and signing and taking a car home inside an hour (I think I was in and out for the winning dealer in 45 minutes) then someone will jump if they have the inventory. The only thing I'm not sure about is if the supply is low due to production/transportation delays. I'd assume sales are way down to where there's a bunch of '20s on the lot depreciating as they sit with '21 model year a few months away. When the '21s are out... any '20s have effectively depreciated an extra $1000 or so, based on their future resale value, and that lower value should reflect in their sale price.

Thanks for the response. That’s a pretty great deal that you got. If I had that deal now, I’d jump on it in a heartbeat. I do think that a huge part is the lack of production and slow transportation due to the virus. Hopefully it’ll be over soon and production is back to normal so supple and demand level out.

 

[turbociv910]

paid 23800 for mine plus tax

 

[lyfamily]

paid 23800 for mine plus tax

Was this before the pandemic started? I assumed prices would go down because of it but it seems the opposite is happening.

 

[charleswrivers]

Thanks for the response. That’s a pretty great deal that you got. If I had that deal now, I’d jump on it in a heartbeat. I do think that a huge part is the lack of production and slow transportation due to the virus. Hopefully it’ll be over soon and production is back to normal so supple and demand level out.

Good luck. So long as you have a decent, working car and time to wait... you can wait them out. I posted this a long time ago... but this is a copy of the e-mail I sent out to the first guy who gave me a crap deal... and I revised it and sent a variant out to competing dealers. They were quick to offer to match or beat my requested offer. Had a deal on a red '18 Si I wanted with summer tires when that dealer didn't have a single '18 on the lot yet... only '17s. It had several dealer add-ons from the transfer that they didn't charge me for... since it wasn't the deal I'd said I'd accept (wheel locks... pen stripe, N2 in the tires, etc.).

I'm done sitting in dealerships and getting sweat out while I watch salesmen play their game. They know exactly what the car costs them... and have a fair idea what they'll be able to sell your trade for. I expect them to make some money off of me... any invoice represents a small profit... with a trade being a good source of profit. Everything between invoice and MSRP represents pure profit. Most dealer add-ons are also huge sources of profit. You can look up what items like locking lug nuts... cargo trays... extra interior lighting... etc. cost. Many times they're added on for several times their actual cost. For items requiring essentially zero labor for their install, it's just a cash grab.

You, as the buyer, have all the power so long as you don't give it up and let them put you in a little room alone and feel like because they have your car getting appraised in the back of the lot with your keys... and they're working on you... back and forth... making you sit alone... that they've 'got you'. I did that garbage as a young guy in my 20's and got a raw deal early on. Never again.

Mr. Rashwan,

Concerning the deal offered to me on purchasing a 2018 Honda Civic SI. Your initial offer was on the MSRP of a vehicle with ~$1600 of add-ons that, 'are always put on the vehicle'. My trade offer was 14200.
Additional fees your dealership discloses, that are profit to the dealer are a $699 'predelievery service fee. The '$98' private tag agency fee' is unfamiliar to me... as I am unsure if this is the fee required to place a tag on the car. I will assume such. "Non tax fees" that was provided of of $474 of fluff and would have to account for. As I see, this fee could likely represent an additional 'profit fee' for your dealership.
That being as it is, after leaving your dealer, I did some research online and got a call from Duval Honda, with an immediate offer of $23498 on a 2018 SI, without $1600 for a window tint, mudflaps, locking lugnuts... and whatever else it had been... nut to me represented about 300-400 in parts/cost for me to have installed. They asked for me to bring my '15 Civic to be appraised. $23498 represented the price of the car via 'Truecar.com'... and they acknowledged I could acquire the car with the one factory option, Summer tires, for $200, bringing the price to ~$23700.
With regard to the Civic, acknowledging a few chips in the paint, one scratch in a rim, a little tire wear (probably 70%/40% Front/rear tread) and floor mat wear, I'd place the vehicle in G condition, as does KBB... which gives me a median trade-in value of 16,693. I would not be interested in receiving less than this value. I have a good location to be a private party sale on base, and would price the car at the median price that car is shown at, ~18200, and readily accept 17500. I'd be 'giving the car away' at 17000 and would still do better in a trade, though that is understandable and would be more convenient to me. I have received a KBB cash offer within a few hundred dollars of the amount I am requesting as the trade value, which places your offer of $14200 thousands off the mark.
As it stands, the price I have been offered it approximately invoice pricing, and I'd surmise you'd be making at approximately $500 based on a 2% holdback... perhaps more, but not less. That coupled with the $699 predeliverly service fee puts you at minimum of $1200 profit.
The price offered would have you making an additional profit of 2500 on my trade, I'd estimate about 1000 based on your dealer installed options, none of which I want or would pay for, and... I don't have the price here, but ~1500 for the price of the car itself (based on the sticker). Any other charges I'd surmise, other than the obvious tax, tag and title fees would represent profit to the dealer. This puts your initial offer at about $5000 off overall, to me.
Given my credit score of ~800 and my current military service, I would expect I would qualify for .9% APR and receive an additional $500. The only variable I see in this would be $500 military discount and financing through Honda. If an interest rate that isn't pretty much at the bottom of what I see on Honda's website, (.9%), I'd expect it'd be based on a finance reserve and will simply use NFCU and would have the means to do so on my person in the form of a bank note.
That would put a breakdown to something along these lines...
Car price: +$23700 (SI with summer tires, no dealer add-ons... Truecar price +$200 for summer tires)
Amount owed on trade +$14695 (loan through NFCU)
Value of trade -$16693 (based on KBB 'good', I have the sheet in-hand)
Predelivery fee +$699 (your website)
'Tag" fee +$98 (your website)
Military discount -$500 (Honda website)
Sales tax ~+$600 (based on car price - trade value)

That would have me finance 22599 at .9% APR + maybe a few hundred dollars for Tag/Title fees... as your '98 private tag fee' is what I assume another service fee, but coming in under 23000 financed. I would otherwise finance through NFCU at a similar interest rate, but be out the $500. If you are not interested in the offer, I can go to Duval and pretty much accept their vehicle price as it stands and dicker around with the trade. If I don't like it, I'll put it on base and auto port and list it there and sell it for $17000-17500 w/in a month, then go back to Duval to purchase a car.
That's as it stands. You are the only dealer I have physically walked into and has given me the time to test drive a vehicle. If you are willing to work numbers VERY similar to this, I will come back. If I see numbers substantially different or try to get sweat out, I'll thank you for your time and hit the road. Our time is both valuable and not worst wasting on a bad deal I simply won't accept. My interest is based on a want... not a need. I've been contacted by 3 other dealers, one in Savannah, Duval there in Jax and one other... I think was in St. Augustine. Savannah said they'd beat a written price and Duval said they'd put the 23498 in writing, but I'd rather not drive 100 miles north for a couple hundred bucks. I understand this is a drastic change from $6500 of profit on the dealers part, not including your perspective profit of selling my '15 at a dealer price, thousands above what you paid me for my trade, minus maybe a few hundred dollars in cleaning, reconditioning, etc... but it is a realistic number than would motivate me to come back to you and still provide you $1000+ in profit... maybe still quite a bit more, but I know y'all are breaking this number, and additional profit on the sale of my vehicle, which is a pretty low mileage vehicle at ~7k miles/yr and still well within it's factory powertrain warranty.
Again, this is sent as a courtesy to you for your time and showing me two of your cars and a relationship I have established with a couple service managers in your service department with performing work on my Odyssey. Given the choice to go to Brunswick, GA or a different location in Jacksonville I have chosen to go to you, and desire to continue to do so. You currently have no car on the lot and one of my wife's desired color would have to be ordered. If you are not interested in meeting my numbers, subject to a credit check on my part, I will thank you for your time yesterday and will continue my correspondence with Duval. As a owner of 3 vehicles, 2 of them relatively late model Hondas, a 2014 Odyssey and 2015 Civic, who historically swaps cars every 2-4 years (Though I think the Odyssey may be a vehicle I'll keep through my kids' younger years) and my expectation to continue to be stationed at the KB naval base, I would like to make y'all a go-to dealership, as I purchased 2 Hondas in about a years time while I was in Norfolk, VA. I am not interested in coming down to the dealership on a notion of 'us working' and you trying to bridge the gap between your initial offer that was very poor, and my offer which, while aggressive, represents my desire to walk in, pick a color, turn over my keys, shake hands and sign a contract and go home and await delivery of my vehicle with minimal additional time on your part, a reasonable profit for the sale with a decent potential profit still available from the sale of my '15. I understand there will be offers for dealer add-ons, a paint protection plan, a service plan, an and extended warranty... either through Honda Care or a third party and I will intend to politely decline. My expectation on what I will sign will be firmly on what I have researched and the numbers offered to me by a competitive dealer.
V/R
Charles

 

[turbociv910]

... either through Honda Care or a third party and I will intend to politely decline. My expectation on what I will sign will be firmly on what I have researched and the numbers offered to me by a competitive dealer.
V/R
Charles

do you write for a living? thats a novel

 

[charleswrivers]

do you write for a living? thats a novel

No. I am just able to write I suppose. College papers were easy. It’s maybe a page or two.

 

[mikegold]

I got 23 in Atlanta before Covid in March through USAA (True Car). They tried to add on all kinds of packages but I refused and held out longer than they did.

Sponsored