2018 Premium Audio System

[inc0gnito]

Wish I had found this thread earlier before my install

What I've done so far:
Tapped Front right + to lc2i right +
Front right - to lc2i right -
Front left + to lc2i left +
Front left - to lc2i left -

Is that the correct way?

From there, lc2i -> new amp -> subwoofer.

I ran into problems when I re-connected the oem sub output back into subwoofer. Not sure if having both amps running to the subwoofer caused the issue or poor wire tapping caused it or incorrect wiring that caused it -_-

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[jopale]

@SCOPESYS Thanks for the investigation on trying to figure out what the cause of the relatively poor audio is. I'm curious to know what sort of experience or opinion the community has of a device like the Fix86. Let's say the let the external AMP do whatever it wants to do and introduce the Fix86; then, it won't matter what the external amp does because now everything is fixed on-the-fly, right? Sure it wont the be the cheapest way, but it's simple and convenient for the best SQ out of the system. Isn't this the ultimate solution?

 

[SCOPESYS]

@SCOPESYS Thanks for the investigation on trying to figure out what the cause of the relatively poor audio is. I'm curious to know what sort of experience or opinion the community has of a device like the Fix86. Let's say the let the external AMP do whatever it wants to do and introduce the Fix86; then, it won't matter what the external amp does because now everything is fixed on-the-fly, right? Sure it wont the be the cheapest way, but it's simple and convenient for the best SQ out of the system. Isn't this the ultimate solution?

Not familiar with the Fix86 -- assume it is a DSP.

The major issue is any fix is trying to correct the mess that the Honda DSP introduces, and can never be as good as if it was allowed to process the original audio, before it got so "messed up" by the Honda Processing.

DSP-FLAT fixes the Honda DSP processing, but unfortunately, it does not talk to the DSP in the systems that have an external Amp (Honda messed up there !!),

With the Honda DSP processing and not turned off, and external DSP results in "Rubbish in" goes to "slighlty less rubbish out".

The perceived Audio is also very dependant on the Source. Some of the streaming services use a very restricted bandwidth, and also, unfortunately, many more recent music is not that well produced... which adds to the problem.

Personally, I tend to listen to my own music that I have on a USB stick, which I have optimized when transferring to the stick. Since I have the Si, it has its DSP in the AMP, so I cannot turn it off with DSP-FLAT, but now with a better CENTER speaker, the sound balance in the car is vastly improved, and I am happy with it now as it is -- not perfect, but fine for driving.

 

[19redsi]

(1) Sub Speaker Channel
(2018 Honda Premium Audio Revealed Project)

SUB Amp Frequency Response

For Reference, below are typical Frequencies generated by Low Frequency Instruments, Bass Guitar, Drums etc.
(Fundamentals & Harmonics)

So with the current Premium Audio system's SUB, only covers the very LOW Frequency end of Bass Instrument Fundamentals. No wonder there is so little coming out of the Sub speaker .. it's all Vibration Feeling and no Audio Hearing,​

Scopesys - is there ANY chance you somehow measured this incorrectly? I just cannot imagine that any amplifier company (Pioneer in this case right?) would agree to send a low-pass below 40 Hz for a 8 inch sub. I mean, I ran a higher x-over for my 12's.

Additionally, were you able to determine the power output from the amplifier for the sub channel or the resistance of the stock sub? I'm toying with an idea of hooking up a highly-efficient sub directly to the signal that feeds the subwoofer for a test.

*edit: it also seems odd to me that an 8 inch speaker would be able to play down to around 8Hz with only -3db...something just feels off to me

 

[SCOPESYS]

Scopesys - is there ANY chance you somehow measured this incorrectly? I just cannot imagine that any amplifier company (Pioneer in this case right?) would agree to send a low-pass below 40 Hz for a 8 inch sub. I mean, I ran a higher x-over for my 12's.

Additionally, were you able to determine the power output from the amplifier for the sub channel or the resistance of the stock sub? I'm toying with an idea of hooking up a highly-efficient sub directly to the signal that feeds the subwoofer for a test.

*edit: it also seems odd to me that an 8 inch speaker would be able to play down to around 8Hz with only -3db...something just feels off to me

These are the Frequency responses of the AMPLIFIER + DSP, not the frequency response of measured "Sound" from speakers.

Yes, I agree, it's crazy that Honda is trying to send such a low frequency sub bandwidth from their DSP controlled Sub AMP to their 2 Ohm stock sub speaker.
But it explains why you don't "hear" very much from them , apart from low frequency vibration and resonances of the surrounding surfaces.

 

[Dharmaboy]

Have we come to a consensus on which lines to tap into for +/- Left and +/- Right of the LC2i? Where do we Tap into them? Before or after the Factory stock Amp?

 

[kperalta]

Have we come to a consensus on which lines to tap into for +/- Left and +/- Right of the LC2i? Where do we Tap into them? Before or after the Factory stock Amp?

There is no before the amp

 

[kperalta]

There is no before the amp

In all seriousness though the output from the HU is digital. I imagine in the future there will be a way to interface with it directly using a DSP but rn there isn't. Tap after the amp. You could honestly tap the the front left and sub channel but since the lower frequencies are present in the front channels tapping both fronts will be fine. Especially since you have an LC2i

 

[SCOPESYS]

Have we come to a consensus on which lines to tap into for +/- Left and +/- Right of the LC2i? Where do we Tap into them? Before or after the Factory stock Amp?

By far the optimum speakers to tap into are the FRONT Left & Right.
They have a frequency response that goes a lot lower than the two rear speakers, so you will get far better "Low Frequency filtered BASS" out from the LC2i, uing the front speaker as inputs.

 

[Dharmaboy]

By far the optimum speakers to tap into are the FRONT Left & Right.
They have a frequency response that goes a lot lower than the two rear speakers, so you will get far better "Low Frequency filtered BASS" out from the LC2i, uing the front speaker as inputs.

Thanks guys. I am guessing best way is to tap from the amp wires coming from the passenger kick panel? I think I saw some posts of guys doing that. Would make my life easier going that route than going all the way to the back speakers to the LC2i and then return the speaker wires from the after market amp to the back where my sub will sit.

 

[19redsi]

These are the Frequency responses of the AMPLIFIER + DSP, not the frequency response of measured "Sound" from speakers.

Yes, I agree, it's crazy that Honda is trying to send such a low frequency sub bandwidth from their DSP controlled Sub AMP to their 2 Ohm stock sub speaker.
But it explains why you don't "hear" very much from them , apart from low frequency vibration and resonances of the surrounding surfaces.

Ugh, good point. I should have remembered that. Well, my little experiment didn't work out too well. With the bass and sub all the way up, the stock amp barely had enough to make my 12 look like it was doing something. I was really thinking a sub which had a better chance to reproduce those low frequencies AND be really efficient, would have a good chance. A nickle-plated pioneer premier 12 in a sealed box was not that sub.

 

[SCOPESYS]

Ugh, good point. I should have remembered that. Well, my little experiment didn't work out too well. With the bass and sub all the way up, the stock amp barely had enough to make my 12 look like it was doing something. I was really thinking a sub which had a better chance to reproduce those low frequencies AND be really efficient, would have a good chance. A nickle-plated pioneer premier 12 in a sealed box was not that sub.

I really do not understand why Honda set up the SUB Channel DSP to only pass such low frequency signals.. its almost as if they were a decimal point out in the bandwidth selection when they programmed it --but then never noticed. !!!

 

[EasyFrag]

Hopefully PAC comes out with an AMP PRO for the Civic one of these days...

 

[kperalta]

Hopefully PAC comes out with an AMP PRO for the Civic one of these days...

One can only wish. Doubtful though. It's more likely that a Maestro RR will come out before then

 

[EasyFrag]

One can only wish. Doubtful though. It's more likely that a Maestro RR will come out before then

Even better!!!

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