Leasing issue, major regrets.

Si_Brian said:

Powertrain issues would be covered under the 5y/60k miles warranty. B2B is only 3 years/36k.
If you're planning to modify at all, kiss your warranty goodbye. Subaru is right on par with Audi in terms of trying to get a warranty claim paid out. They'll go above and beyond not to pay.

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Yeah that I'm totally aware of, aside from cosmetic modifications (decal(s), interior trim pieces, mud guards, etc.)I wouldn't be doing much out the gate with either of these cars. At most maybe a K&N drop-in, or equivalent filter so it could be cleaned instead of replaced. Although I can imagine they'd argue that caused a problem but who says I cant swap it back before I go in, I digress.

The EJ205 and EJ207 were far more reliable than the EJ255 and EJ257. I'm out of the Subaru life for well over a decade now. But I can tell you my 2002 lived stock for the first 36k, then 300whp up to 110k(when I sold it to my younger brother), then 450whp up to 190k, at which point it exhibited partial bearing failure with metal found in the oil. Another EJ205 has since been swapped into the car.

The joy of that car was that it looked and mostly sounded like any other lightly modded WRX, yet it would run away from even a lightly modded STI. Between the cost of the car used (2002 purchased in 2005) and the cost of modifications I was still far under the total purchase price of an STI. It also cost less to insure. Stock is boring. Modify all the things.

I just posted my argument FOR leasing:

https://www.civicx.com/threads/my-argument-for-leasing.27222/

https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-you-should-never-lease-a-car

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/29/jay-leno-and-suze-orman-agree-dont-lease-a-car-buy.html

LOL, I love this:

“With buying, eventually you will have paid the car off and no longer have the expense of the monthly payment.”

Gee, yeah, all you have to do is making a larger payment for a longer period of time and then you own... something that is worth a tiny fraction of what you bought it for.

As an Australian, I don't get the lease option that is so heavily advertised in America.

When I was in the US every car advert told you the lease price not the price to purchase.

Only a business in Australia would lease a car to write it off as a tax expense.

I understand the OP wasn't financially in a place to buy the car, but wouldn't a loan that is paid back to own the car be better then a lease?

AndyAndromeda-AUS said:

As an Australian, I don't get the lease option that is so heavily advertised in America.

When I was in the US every car advert told you the lease price not the price to purchase.

Only a business in Australia would lease a car to write it off as a tax expense.

I understand the OP wasn't financially in a place to buy the car, but wouldn't a loan that is paid back to own the car be better then a lease?

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Think of it as renting an apartment/flat/home, but with an option to buy at the end.

Hijinx said:

Think of it as renting an apartment/flat/home, but with an option to buy at the end.

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yeah... that just sounds like a normal loan... Why not just get a loan then and be done with not having to worry about how far you have driven it.

AndyAndromeda-AUS said:

yeah... that just sounds like a normal loan... Why not just get a loan then and be done with not having to worry about how far you have driven it.

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You guys get loans to rent an apartment?

It sounds like you just want to pick on the U.S. considering that there are lease options in Australia. It’s a personal decision to lease or buy/finance. When I leased my LX back in 2016, I wasn’t worried about the miles because I had two other cars. I leased my Si because I now have 4 other cars...so I’m not worried about mileage.

Hijinx said:

You guys get loans to rent an apartment?

It sounds like you just want to pick on the U.S. considering that there are lease options in Australia. It’s a personal decision to lease or buy/finance. When I leased my LX back in 2016, I wasn’t worried about the miles because I had two other cars. I leased my Si because I now have 4 other cars...so I’m not worried about mileage.

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Aussie's live in houses, apartment living is not that popular here. But no you don't get a loan to rent something....

I'm just saying all your advertising is aimed at leasing a car, which is weird for Aussie's as all advertising is aimed at outright purchase price.

So when the OP is worried about how far they have driven the car it also compounds the weirdness of leasing a car as it also appears to come with many strings attached. Like you just also said you were not worried cause you could drive other cars, but not everyone wants or needs several cars.

I'm not picking on the US, it just an odd concept. Although you are getting ripped off on your warranties in North America.

Hijinx said:

I’ve contributed plenty in this thread...without being a condenscending dick, unlike you. Also, yes, being a dick suits me - thanks for noticing.

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Well then by all means go f*ck yourself.

AndyAndromeda-AUS said:

I'm just saying all your advertising is aimed at leasing a car, which is weird for Aussie's as all advertising is aimed at outright purchase price.

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Leasing in the US used to be for businesses due to the tax write off and yes, for some people, leasing makes sense. However peoples ambitions to have the newest thing came along, to live larger than they realistically should, and it became easier for a consumer to justify paying say, $399/mo to own a fancy new MB, Lexus, BMW and lease for 2-3 years (renting, depreciation installment etc) rather than admit that they really should have just BOUGHT a $15,000 car (think Yaris/Fit)

Manufacturers are in business to move product. Very few save up $25K to then spend on a car anymore. Car sales in the US would drop to a few million per year (vs 15-17 mil/year) if there wasn't a "cheap" way to get the consumer into the latest product.

All cars are depreciating assets for the bulk of their lifetime. I would rather buy a car and keep it for 10 years.. have it paid off, and take that monthly car payment and pay myself rather than to perpetually pay for another car.

Think about it.. in the above.. if you paid $400/mo for a 3yr lease.. thats $15K.. and then do that for 2-3-4 cars.. so 6-9-12 years.. you ARE paying $30-45-60K for the pleasure of not actually owning anything.

I don't understand why people use depreciation as an argument in support of leasing. Everything you buy depreciates in value. A pair of jeans depreciates in value. A flat screen TV depreciates in value.Your furniture and appliances depreciate in value. Why not lease all that stuff? There's only one reason to lease. A lower payment. And then you get screwed in the end. Every single person I've ever known who leased a car regretted it. The dealer uses "avoiding the depreciation" as a way of convincing the customer to lease. The argument doesn't make logical sense. You "avoid paying for the depreciation" by making a car payment for three years and then giving the car back? huh????? It's an abstract argument that doesn't correspond to any objective reality. When you lease you are, in fact, paying ONLY for the depreciation.And if you buy the car at the end of the lease you will, in the end, have paid far more for it than if you had bought it in the first place.

AndyAndromeda-AUS said:

As an Australian, I don't get the lease option that is so heavily advertised in America.

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Its simple - most people here just live month to month - if they can afford the monthly payment, that's all that counts. Most don't even factor in the one time down payment that reduces their monthly payments on a lease, and a lease payment monthly is usually lower than the financed monthly rate.

Auto insurance is available on a monthly basis too - there's usually a cost involved paying it monthly instead of for the full year... but people don't want to pay upfront.

It all comes down to spending habits and the lack of financial smarts - not saying that leasing is bad though, its just another financing tool that works mostly in favor of the auto dealers and makers.

I've leased, and I've owned. I'll never do a lease again. Either way you are going to assume the depreciation of the vehicle if you ever want to sell it. GAP insurance of course will help in the case of an accident. NJ is the type of state where you will drive more miles than you expect. going over on miles will force most people to buy out the car. The penalty for going over is harsh.