The End of The CTR?

[Zeffy94]

European honda cars will be 100% electric by 2022 in Europe

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/world-of-honda/future/electric-vision.html

Europes not been a big fk8 sales success sadly, just hope they continue in NA. But ford killed off the focus over with you and now Europe have officially killed off the new RS here so the end may be nigh....

They will be electrified, not full on electric. Not sure what that means for the CTR though, unless Honda wants to make a hybrid version of it hopefully with a stick.

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[Driveitlikeuboughtit]

My feeling is that 2022 will not feature a CTR.

First, the legend of the R is much more important than the actual R. An incremental improvement would not be enough and I think they'd like to skip a generation before doing something dramatically better. The existence of the current gen R is enough to "halo" their cars for a while.

Second, enthusiast cars are a tough sell during a recession/depression/15% of the fucking population out of work.

Third, I really don't think the R is as profitable as you all think. I wouldn't be surprised if MSRP was set at a loss or break-even on introduction. Special production means special training, special lines. Special parts sourcing is no trivial feat and a distraction from the factory churning out the bread and butter standard Hatches. If the R was super profitable, they would make more. A lot more. More volume to soak up development costs and the like. To be blunt, they have not.

Fourth, the Swindon plant is going away. They not only produced the R, they developed it from what I remember. Without champions, low volume projects tend to die away.

 

[ayau]

Fourth, the Swindon plant is going away. They not only produced the R, they developed it from what I remember. Without champions, low volume projects tend to die away.

I don’t believe there’s much R & D in Swindon and is purely a manufacturing facility.

The PR of the CTR makes you believe that it was developed by Honda of Japan.

I could see the 11th gen CTR having more input from the US Team since that will most likely be the manufacturing location.

 

[TMM]

CTR has double wishbone while most of the hot hatch competition is McPherson struts (Golf R and Focus RS from what I can remember). Double wishbone is heavier and bulkier but better at changing keeping more rubber on the road while cornering.

FK8 isn't double wishbone. It's basically identical to the Focus RS 'revoknuckle' - a type of McPherson strut which uses a separate knuckle to accomplish the steering rather than rotating the entire strut to steer like in a traditional McPherson strut system. This accomplishes a smaller scrub radius than traditional McPherson strut, reducing torque steer. In terms of suspension geometry, it's basically the same as traditional McPherson strut.

Double wishbone (as 1990's Civics had) can achieve higher camber gain than McPherson strut so as the car rolls onto the outside wheel in a corner the compression of the suspension adds a bunch of negative camber to the wheel, cancelling out positive camber introduced by body roll. The problem with double wish bone is that it can add negative camber as the inside wheels droop which is the opposite to what you want. Ultimately the gain in traction by cambering the outside wheels makes up for the loss of traction on the inside wheels.
The main problem with having high camber gain is that when you're driving straight and the body isn't rolling you don't want the wheels to significantly camber when the suspension compresses or unloads. This causes loss of traction over bumps or during heavy acceleration/braking.

The cornering prowess of the FK8 mostly comes from its wider track width and lower weight than the competitors which reduces weight transfer off the inside wheel and on to the outside wheel in a corner.

 

[Zeffy94]

My feeling is that 2022 will not feature a CTR.

First, the legend of the R is much more important than the actual R. An incremental improvement would not be enough and I think they'd like to skip a generation before doing something dramatically better. The existence of the current gen R is enough to "halo" their cars for a while.

Second, enthusiast cars are a tough sell during a recession/depression/15% of the fucking population out of work.

One other thing that might point to reasons why a CTR in 2022 may not happen is Honda's current revenue loss from the virus. It's pretty bad - they just released earnings and they are at the lowest operating profit in 4 years, and they declined to release an earnings outlook due to the vast uncertainty about the coronavirus impacts in the future.

 

[MADEinJAPAN]

I think they will continue to make them. There is a market. If you build it, they will buy it!

 

[frtorres87]

I’m almost 100% sure that we will see another Type R stateside.

 

[metal_driver]

My feeling is that 2022 will not feature a CTR.

First, the legend of the R is much more important than the actual R. An incremental improvement would not be enough and I think they'd like to skip a generation before doing something dramatically better. The existence of the current gen R is enough to "halo" their cars for a while.

Second, enthusiast cars are a tough sell during a recession/depression/15% of the fucking population out of work.

Third, I really don't think the R is as profitable as you all think. I wouldn't be surprised if MSRP was set at a loss or break-even on introduction. Special production means special training, special lines. Special parts sourcing is no trivial feat and a distraction from the factory churning out the bread and butter standard Hatches. If the R was super profitable, they would make more. A lot more. More volume to soak up development costs and the like. To be blunt, they have not.

Fourth, the Swindon plant is going away. They not only produced the R, they developed it from what I remember. Without champions, low volume projects tend to die away.

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[JayeGee]

The people who continue to doubt Hyundai are the ones who think it's the same brand from 20 years ago. It's not. Hyundai has legitimately turned out some great and exciting cars in the past 5 years alone.

My friend has a veloster N that car surprised me it's a fun car i personally think they will get better every generation if they stay in competition but definitly not the same hyundai of 20yrs ago and im sure someone said the same thing about honda not being a threat look at us now lol

 

[Gruber]

European honda cars will be 100% electric by 2022

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/world-of-honda/future/electric-vision.html

Europes not been a big fk8 sales success sadly, [.....]

Europe's not been a big Honda car sales success, sadly. CTR is just a part of it.

No one outside of Honda can guess what Honda decides to do with the CTR. It does not make money, but it's a great advertisement (commercial) for Honda cars. It was introduced as a promotion for the 10th gen civic.

I definitely would like to encourage Honda to keep offering the CTR and I would argue it builds the brand recognition more than they might appreciate.

As it is, it doesn't canibalize much the sales of any other Honda, so it's just a cost. I say it's worth it for Honda, but they probably think they get more publicity when they introduce new things, so they need to terminate it first, to bring it back with a fanfare at a chosen time. Familiarity breeds contempt.

If CTR could actually sell in larger numbers and compete in sales with the regular civics, it would need to be a wee bit cheaper and it would decrease the fleet fuel economy. Honda will not want that, so this is definitely nut gunna happen. So they will keep selling it at a trickle without ever trying hard, or kill it to revive later.

 

[Galaxythief]

My friend has a veloster N that car surprised me it's a fun car i personally think they will get better every generation if they stay in competition but definitly not the same hyundai of 20yrs ago and im sure someone said the same thing about honda not being a threat look at us now lol

My dad is GM all the way, stayed downing Hondas growing up. Anything not American or German really. I'm on Honda number 4 and he actually complimented my Accord. Of course the Type-R is too busy for him. But same thing, different generation. I'll give Hyundai their props for becoming what they are, but I dont ever see myself owning one.

 

[batman900]

Best answer I've seen

I agree, I think they build them as a halo car to show they still have that racing heritage, not so much to profit from sales directly.

 

[Rottboy]

My dad is GM all the way, stayed downing Hondas .............But same thing, different generation. I'll give Hyundai their props..........don't ever see myself owning one.

LOL. I was just like your dad. Wouldn't desire to own anything unless it was European made.

My 1st new Japan sourced vehicle was a 1980 Izuzu Trooper. Damn thing was a tank! Never had a single issue, mechanical wise. Easily towed my 22ft. 150hp Johnson powered speedboat during the latter part of scuba diving days back on the islands. From, there I never looked back. There was always at least one Nippon car in the garage!!!
1st Honda affiliated car was '98 Acura Integra Type R (FN2), then an '07 Fit base model., followed by a '15 GK LX and now, this '20 CTR. Still have Euro branded cars, but nothing can beat the Japanese for build quality and reliability, long run.
My 4 sons are all Beemer or Porsche owners. They were responsible for the purchase of my first blue car telling me not to "live in the past".
Lesson: keep an open mind, be ready to accept life changes - Koreans (and even China) may one day come out with models that will excite all of us CTR owners!

 

[Cornercarver]

The CTR is a halo car, bringing in people to the dealership, who may not leave with a CTR, but will very likely leave with a Honda if they drive it.. That is how I wound up with an SI in 2017. Not sorry at all, just glad I finally have a CTR. the point is without the CTR to lure me in, I might be driving a WRX or other sport compact. And missed out on two of the best cars ever. Yes the next gen will very likely be a hybrid. And sadly, really sadly, it may not even have a manual. or be anywhere near as lightweight, or even front wheel drive. Honda, please prove me wrong. I'm hanging on to the legend. Just in case.

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