MK7 VW GTI Owner, interested in the new Si...

[derekjl]

First post here so bear with me...So, I am a long time VW owner, have had three GTIs in the past 10 years. Loved all of them. The new Civic Si has spiked my interested. The list of standard features, performance, gas mileage, price, and (hopefully) reliability is hard to pass up. I have never owned a Honda product before, but it seems people swear by them. I absolutely love my 2015 GTI. Completely stock it has plenty of power, reliability has been fine. I have really not enjoyed the dealership experiences, and it seems to be the same story with many VW owners. It takes twisting someone's neck to get a potential issue addressed, warranty work can be a nightmare, maintenance isn't the cheapest, etc. It will be paid off in 3 short months, so I am at the crossroads of either keeping it long-term, or selling it and immediately getting into something else. I have compared the features on my car to the new Si. I have the "S" trim with the Lighting Package (bi-xenon headlights). Other than that, the car is pretty bare bones. The things the Si has that my GTI does not are the rear-view camera, sunroof (big plus), limited slip differential (BIG plus), better stock stereo, lane departure warning?, Apple CarPlay, keyless entry, push button start, better gas mileage, I'm guessing cheaper to maintain, higher local dealership ratings, and better resale value in the long-term. As some of you know, VW took a huge hit with the scandal a year or so ago, the GTI looks to be one of the cars that didn't suffer as badly in terms of resale. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong in terms of the features as I don't know a TON about this car. I plan on test driving one soon, particularly the coupe. I just love the looks. My only real main concern is comparing the power of the two cars. I'm not sure if they are in the same ballpark in that sense. I would definitely entertain the idea of the Hondata tune, maybe an intake and exhaust, but that's really about it. I've never been one to push my cars past a "Stage I". Any input would really be appreciated. If anyone has cross-shopped these two cars and has anything to add that would be great. Thanks!

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[zx2down]

Speed wise you'll be stepping backwards, even if you were stock. Your going to be noticeably slower in a stock Si vs a GTI, worse in a Flashed GTI. With a tune that gap closes a lot. Handling should be similar. Your going to be moving to a car that's slower, but has options you want.

 

[Southstar01118]

I had owned a 2017 gti sport and it actually came everything almost same as the 17 Si only thing in the sport didn't come with was sunroof. My experience with the new si the power is a lot less slower then the a stock gti. I also had it stage 1 tune gti and the power on that thing is insane but I got to say it's nothing compare to the si for some reason the Si is so much more fun and the shifter is so smooth especially with sport mode it make even more fun. You have to go test drive it to see I think you won't be disappointed. I actually traded in my 2016 mustang gt for it. I know power is night and day difference but I would not go back. Honda is always one of my favorite brand they offer a lot of your money and reliability, insurance and anything else is so much cheaper to own.

 

[takemorepills]

The new Si will have more "stuff" than a 2015 GTI S. The 2015 Mk7 had what everyone says is a terrible MIB1 infotainment system.

I have a 2016 GTI SE with PP, DSG and LP. the new 2017 Si won't have anything this trim of GTI doesn't. I paid $28.8K for my GTI.

VW is not the dealer. My dealer in WA state has been awesome, although other dealers I shopped seemed very douchey. They even replaced a wheel I curbed when I took my GTI in for service. I have also heard Honda dealers can be just as bad.

You'll need to go drive an Si to see if it is right for you. But, based on your current 2015 here are the differences I would expect:

Si will be slightly slower than a 6MT GTI. Shouldn't be too bad?
You have much better headlights on your GTI than the Si will have. Don't forget that if you test drive in the daytime.
Check the stereo, I have Fender and there is a lot of rattle-free bass. The CivicX has had issues with rattles.
Better MPG? Come on, it should be better with 25% less displacement! The MPGs will be commensurate with the engine size/power. The GTI is VERY efficient for a 2.0T, just as the Si is VERY efficient for a 1.5T. But, obviously, the one that makes more power uses more fuel.

Wow, you must have had an early 2015 GTI, didn't know they came without backup camera. The backup camera in my GTI is superior to the CivicX, it is hidden behind a motorized VW logo, never gets dirty, wet or fogged up and is very high resolution.

As for maintenance cost (scheduled) the GTI is definitely way too expensive IMO for what it is. I usually do my own, and that way the cost is the same, but VW charges Audi pricing and I can definitely see the appeal for getting a cheaper to maintain car. I think VW wants like $100 for an oil change....good thing I like doing my own maintenance anyway.

My GTI has a JB4, I don't know if you have experienced a tuned Mk7 yet, but when tuned the 2.0T makes a tremendous amount of power. TBH, it makes too much power for a FWD. The power the 2.0T makes is far greater than you can get out of the 1.5T. My opinion is that the 1.5T will max-out with bolt-ons and tune at about what a stock GTI does. Spend half as much money on the GTI and you'll be putting bus lengths on any CivicX Si. But, then again, having a super-powerful FWD GTI isn't always the best thing, especially on rainy days. Ever notice no one has done instrumented testing of the Si yet? Hmmmm.......

 

[CivicSi84]

The new Si will have more "stuff" than a 2015 GTI S. The 2015 Mk7 had what everyone says is a terrible MIB1 infotainment system.

I have a 2016 GTI SE with PP, DSG and LP. the new 2017 Si won't have anything this trim of GTI doesn't. I paid $28.8K for my GTI.

VW is not the dealer. My dealer in WA state has been awesome, although other dealers I shopped seemed very douchey. They even replaced a wheel I curbed when I took my GTI in for service. I have also heard Honda dealers can be just as bad.

You'll need to go drive an Si to see if it is right for you. But, based on your current 2015 here are the differences I would expect:

Si will be slightly slower than a 6MT GTI. Shouldn't be too bad?
You have much better headlights on your GTI than the Si will have. Don't forget that if you test drive in the daytime.
Check the stereo, I have Fender and there is a lot of rattle-free bass. The CivicX has had issues with rattles.
Better MPG? Come on, it should be better with 25% less displacement! The MPGs will be commensurate with the engine size/power. The GTI is VERY efficient for a 2.0T, just as the Si is VERY efficient for a 1.5T. But, obviously, the one that makes more power uses more fuel.

Wow, you must have had an early 2015 GTI, didn't know they came without backup camera. The backup camera in my GTI is superior to the CivicX, it is hidden behind a motorized VW logo, never gets dirty, wet or fogged up and is very high resolution.

As for maintenance cost (scheduled) the GTI is definitely way too expensive IMO for what it is. I usually do my own, and that way the cost is the same, but VW charges Audi pricing and I can definitely see the appeal for getting a cheaper to maintain car. I think VW wants like $100 for an oil change....good thing I like doing my own maintenance anyway.

My GTI has a JB4, I don't know if you have experienced a tuned Mk7 yet, but when tuned the 2.0T makes a tremendous amount of power. TBH, it makes too much power for a FWD. The power the 2.0T makes is far greater than you can get out of the 1.5T. My opinion is that the 1.5T will max-out with bolt-ons and tune at about what a stock GTI does. Spend half as much money on the GTI and you'll be putting bus lengths on any CivicX Si. But, then again, having a super-powerful FWD GTI isn't always the best thing, especially on rainy days. Ever notice no one has done instrumented testing of the Si yet? Hmmmm.......

I'm sure @VitViper will disagree, plus with a basic tune the Si is putting down 210 whp and 250tq which matches the advertised output of a gti. That's with nothing else, no bolt ons etc.

 

[zx2down]

I'm sure @VitViper will disagree, plus with a basic tune the Si is putting down 210 whp and 250tq which matches the advertised output of a gti. That's with nothing else, no bolt ons etc.

Yeah that's nice, but hes already got a flash, so his GTI is still faster.

 

[zroger73]

lane departure warning?

The Si doesn't have Honda Sensing so there's no Lane Departure Warning. It does have the Lane Watch camera which shows a view towards the right, rear of the car when signaling right or pushing the button on the end of the turn signal lever.

 

[kritz]

Just buy the SI . I drove it and the GTI. You won't regret it. Pills is right about Audi! The 15K service on our A3 was 350 bucks. I shat myself

 

[takemorepills]

I'm sure @VitViper will disagree, plus with a basic tune the Si is putting down 210 whp and 250tq which matches the advertised output of a gti. That's with nothing else, no bolt ons etc.

Generally, that is the minimum WHP a GTI makes on a dyno. Many make over 220whp/260wtq, stock. VW vastly underrated their 2.0T.

Also, consider this: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/honda-limited-2017-civic-si-power-increase-engine-longevity/
Why would Honda be so candid about the weakness of the 1.5T? Maybe a warning shot to tuners when they start killing 1.5Ts?

I don't sense that the OP cares too much about overall power, so the "tunability" of either platform may not matter. But, I am certain that the 1.5T will drive like a smaller engine than the 2.0T, Honda isn't making a 1.5T that feels like anyones 2.0T, so the OP will just have to see if an Si is a fit for him.

These conversations cause me to wonder why I, a long-time Honda fan loves my Mk7 GTI so much. When I was washing my car today, I remembered that the CivicX has flimsy sheet metal. The sheet metal on a CivicX easily caves under moderate pressure. I am sure the OP knows how tank-like a Mk7 GTI is. It is a VERY solid car. It surprises me that VW could make a more sturdy car than the CivicX, with a larger engine, that weighs about the same as the CivicX.

OP, make sure you check the "flimsiness" of the CivicX and see if that even matters to you.

I also like the fact that my red GTI looks very similar to the 1990-91 Civic Si hatchback.

 

[ne0guri]

I remembered that the CivicX has flimsy sheet metal. The sheet metal on a CivicX easily caves under moderate pressure.

I definitely noticed this last night. I was wiping the roof of my car and leaned on the side. Did that aluminum pan pop sound. That's why it's so light I guess?

 

[takemorepills]

I definitely noticed this last night. I was wiping the roof of my car and leaned on the side. Did that aluminum pan pop sound. That's why it's so light I guess?

About 80 pounds lighter.

 

[Apeks]

The Si Sedan is just about 125 pounds lighter than the five door gti. Not as big of a difference as the focus St or wrx, but definitely notable.

You should test drive though and see how the car feels for you overall. Both cars have their respective advantages. The 1.5t makes the Si squirt around nicely but you don't feel the same kind of thrust you get from the gti. Overall acceleration didn't feel that different to me tho. But that was seat of my pants stuff so I could be wrong. Hope the Si will be tested soon.

For me the controls and the balance of the car is pulling me toward the Si. But the gti is so much fun as well. It's a tough choice.

 

[derekjl]

OP here. Sorry I should have clarified that my GTI is NOT tuned, it is bone stock. My previous GTI (an '07) was APR Stage I and my current GTI is still considerably quicker as stock. I will agree that this particular 2.0T (VW/Audi makes a few variations) is severely underrated. One thing I would hate to regret if I went with the Si is the lack of power, or constantly comparing it to the GTI. I really don't feel like wringing as much power out of the 1.5T as possible to the point of it becoming unreliable, having to change the clutch, etc. VW owners know that once you hit "Stage II" power levels, the car becomes quite vulnerable to issues like clutch slip, boost leaks, oil consumption, coil packs, spark plugs, etc. Not really something I want to get into.

 

[CivicSi84]

OP here. Sorry I should have clarified that my GTI is NOT tuned, it is bone stock. My previous GTI (an '07) was APR Stage I and my current GTI is still considerably quicker as stock. I will agree that this particular 2.0T (VW/Audi makes a few variations) is severely underrated. One thing I would hate to regret if I went with the Si is the lack of power, or constantly comparing it to the GTI. I really don't feel like wringing as much power out of the 1.5T as possible to the point of it becoming unreliable, having to change the clutch, etc. VW owners know that once you hit "Stage II" power levels, the car becomes quite vulnerable to issues like clutch slip, boost leaks, oil consumption, coil packs, spark plugs, etc. Not really something I want to get into.

Go drive the Si if you can. Its got plenty of power and is fun to sling around. This coming from somebody who is itching for a big V8 RWD muscle car. I probably wont do much to mine TBH, new wheels and tires and a better intercooler. Possibly a tune but I doubt it if I'll have to upgrade the clutch.

 

[05NBPDC5]

I'd take the reduced power (stock) any day over questioning the reliability of the VAG (VW/Audi group) product. Timing chain failures are common on the 2.0T's, not something I'd be willing to chance. Good friend of mine works at the parts counter on the shop side at a VW/Bentley dealer and the things I hear about those cars is horrible. My point, I'd be looking for long term reliability and resale over temporary increase in power.

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