[SOLVED] Extremely High STFT LTFT and P0171 code

[arpypat]

I haven’t been following closely, but I assume you can still only get the revised part number through the dealership. After that you should be able to do yourself depending on tools and ability. The Hondata instructions aren’t the greatest, but they give the idea. 27Won website says it is 5+ hour install. I’m not sure if there are good videos available. I haven’t had to tackle this one yet. https://www.hondata.com/downloads/hondata-1.5-fuel-system-install-manual-1.pdf

Thanks for that guide! I'm hoping it's not injectors since those are also hard to find right now. Hopefully they give me better info tomorrow, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sponsored

 

[Romeoridgee]

Put intake and other upgraded components related to power train back to stock and have them run cylinder a/f test. If one fails they all get replaced depending on your states emissions warranty

 

[arpypat]

Put intake and other upgraded components related to power train back to stock and have them run cylinder a/f test. If one fails they all get replaced depending on your states emissions warranty

Thanks for the suggestion. Can that test be performed accurately with aftermarket bolt-ons? They didn't say anything about the intercooler+pipes nor RV6 DP+FP, but really didn't like the 27won CAI+TIP.

Oh, Kansas doesn't give a rat's ass about emmisions. VERY lax vehicle laws - no front plate, no emissions testing, no safety inspection, only 1 working brake light required.. I suspect I'll be on the hook for full cost of diagnostic testing + injectors + fuel pipe + labor.

 

[Romeoridgee]

Thanks for the suggestion. Can that test be performed accurately with aftermarket bolt-ons? They didn't say anything about the intercooler+pipes nor RV6 DP+FP, but really didn't like the 27won CAI+TIP.

Oh, Kansas doesn't give a rat's ass about emmisions. VERY lax vehicle laws - no front plate, no emissions testing, no safety inspection, only 1 working brake light required.. I suspect I'll be on the hook for full cost of diagnostic testing + injectors + fuel pipe + labor.

The test is done at idle, but to be safe Id put everything back so they can’t look for an excuse.
I was referring to emissions related components warranty, not emissions testing stations. Every state has different distance/length basic, power train, and emissions warranty.

 

[arpypat]

The test is done at idle, but to be safe Id put everything back so they can’t look for an excuse.
I was referring to emissions related components warranty, not emissions testing stations. Every state has different distance/length basic, power train, and emissions warranty.

They did the A/F test, which failed, and they are recommending the injector replacement. No warranty. $1600+tax

 

[Zedaine]

They did the A/F test, which failed, and they are recommending the injector replacement. No warranty. $1600+tax

How many total miles on the car? Injector issues seem to be so common with our cars I'm surprised there hasn't been a recall for them yet.

If that $1600 includes all the diagnostic work already done you might as well go for it. However, you should be able to get the injectors yourself for around $500 and labor should just be 5 hours if you want to shop around. Since it's already at the dealership though I wouldn't blame you if you just wanted to eat the cost.

If Honda ever does issue a recall on the injectors at a later date you'll be able to get reimbursed.

 

[gtman]

If Honda ever does issue a recall on the injectors at a later date you'll be able to get reimbursed.

Honestly, I'd think that's gonna be kind of tricky considering he's been tuned and the extent of his mod list.

 

[arpypat]

How many total miles on the car? Injector issues seem to be so common with our cars I'm surprised there hasn't been a recall for them yet.

If that $1600 includes all the diagnostic work already done you might as well go for it. However, you should be able to get the injectors yourself for around $500 and labor should just be 5 hours if you want to shop around. Since it's already at the dealership though I wouldn't blame you if you just wanted to eat the cost.

If Honda ever does issue a recall on the injectors at a later date you'll be able to get reimbursed.

Ya I might just eat shit on this one. And just in case it's not injectors, they're still on the hook for diagnosing the lean code.

63k miles and just under 5 years old. Bought car new with 2 miles on the ODO.

Not sure if they'd recall it. But in my mind, if a fuel pump gets a recall for being faulty, why wouldn't injectors? And yes, it seems to fail at a high rate and in similar timeframe to mine - even earlier sometimes!

 

[arpypat]

Btw, I was looking at their report, and now it was throwing a p2187 code - too lean at idle. They didn't find any vacuum leaks, purge valve looked okay, and MAF was okay.

 

[Zedaine]

Ya I might just eat shit on this one. And just in case it's not injectors, they're still on the hook for diagnosing the lean code.

63k miles and just under 5 years old. Bought car new with 2 miles on the ODO.

Not sure if they'd recall it. But in my mind, if a fuel pump gets a recall for being faulty, why wouldn't injectors? And yes, it seems to fail at a high rate and in similar timeframe to mine - even earlier sometimes!

That seems pretty early for a failure. My car was at 93,000 miles when I got my injectors replaced with Honda Accord ones and the injectors that came out actually looked pretty good, they were also running pretty good too.

I've also always used Top Tier fuel and a fuel system cleaner once or twice a year. Is BP still on the Top Tier list of fuels? It was probably just bad luck, but it is also important to always use top tier quality fuels with the additives and detergents to keep injectors and the rest of the fuel system lubricated and clean.

I guess we also need to see if the injectors actually resolve the issue first.

Thanks for keeping us updated!

 

[gtman]

Common problems that trigger the P2187 code...

Damaged or contaminated spark plug

Fuel injector failure

Powertrain Control Module (PCM) issue

Vacuum leak

Exhaust leak

Fuel pump failure

 

[Romeoridgee]

unfortunately in your state, the part number for the injectors are only covered under the emissions warranty 36k/36months, its not considered powertrain. here in maryland the emissions warranty on the same injectors are 70k/84months, still not considered powertrain. not all states have same length warranties. if you were to register your car in a state that has a longer warranty, such as parents, siblings, uncles or aunts, best friend, etc, you should be able to get them covered. if thats a bit extreme for you, I recommend its time to upgrade your fueling system.

 

[arpypat]

That seems pretty early for a failure. My car was at 93,000 miles when I got my injectors replaced with Honda Accord ones and the injectors that came out actually looked pretty good, they were also running pretty good too.

I've also always used Top Tier fuel and a fuel system cleaner once or twice a year. Is BP still on the Top Tier list of fuels? It was probably just bad luck, but it is also important to always use top tier quality fuels with the additives and detergents to keep injectors and the rest of the fuel system lubricated and clean.

I guess we also need to see if the injectors actually resolve the issue first.

Thanks for keeping us updated!

I guess 63k is not that much compared to 93K! And I hope BP is still on the list. I only use BP because they are the only ones with 93 in this area. I didn't think I'd have to run fuel system cleaner in this platform if using BP 93, but maybe I'll follow that 1-2x/year recommendation.

Common problems that trigger the P2187 code...

Damaged or contaminated spark plug

Fuel injector failure

Powertrain Control Module (PCM) issue

Vacuum leak

Exhaust leak

Fuel pump failure

Yup, only thing not checked on this list was exhaust leak. If it's not the injectors, I'll ask them to check the downpipe and front pipe. I have the RV6 DP/FP combo, so not sure if they'll touch that vband clamp, though. I could see loose downpipe-turbo connection being a potential issue.

unfortunately in your state, the part number for the injectors are only covered under the emissions warranty 36k/36months, its not considered powertrain. here in maryland the emissions warranty on the same injectors are 70k/84months, still not considered powertrain. not all states have same length warranties. if you were to register your car in a state that has a longer warranty, such as parents, siblings, uncles or aunts, best friend, etc, you should be able to get them covered. if thats a bit extreme for you, I recommend its time to upgrade your fueling system.

Thanks for looking into that! I don't want to mess with aftermarket fueling yet, so I'm just going to have them replace with factory injectors.

 

[Zedaine]

I guess 63k is not that much compared to 93K! And I hope BP is still on the list. I only use BP because they are the only ones with 93 in this area. I didn't think I'd have to run fuel system cleaner in this platform if using BP 93, but maybe I'll follow that 1-2x/year recommendation.

Looks like as of 2021 BP is no longer on the Top Tier list.

 

[Romeoridgee]

Thanks for looking into that! I don't want to mess with aftermarket fueling yet, so I'm just going to have them replace with factory injectors.

if anyone lives close or wants to make a trip to maryland, I can get them done lol

Sponsored