CV Axles & Lowering

[farqt]

on a related note, i'm super curious if the accord 6mt axles can be swapped onto the civic 1.5t. the accord has about 60-70mm more track, matching aluminum LCAs, but the same knuckles as the civic. the OEM civic dampers only have 4" travel in the front, but a mild angle tuned with upper camber plates might enable more travel and a wider track (possibly at the expense of some torque steer).

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[bahndrvr]

on a related note, i'm super curious if the accord 6mt axles can be swapped onto the civic 1.5t. the accord has about 60-70mm more track, matching aluminum LCAs, but the same knuckles as the civic. the OEM civic dampers only have 4" travel in the front, but a mild angle tuned with upper camber plates might enable more travel and a wider track (possibly at the expense of some torque steer).

Having a hard time believing this statement above as not even all Civic 1.5t front axles are the same... Si has different inner axle shafts than Sport, and EX-T has same inside axle shafts as Sport but different outer axle shafts... So which of the 3 different sized axles are you referring to when stating the 6mt Accord axles are the same? I would assume ONE of them would match up - more than likely the 1.5t EX-T or something to that effect...

 

[farqt]

Having a hard time believing this statement above as not even all Civic 1.5t front axles are the same... Si has different inner axle shafts than Sport, and EX-T has same inside axle shafts as Sport but different outer axle shafts... So which of the 3 different sized axles are you referring to when stating the 6mt Accord axles are the same? I would assume ONE of them would match up - more than likely the 1.5t EX-T or something to that effect...

seriously? i wonder if this is because of the point of origin for the various transaxles. i know the Si trans comes from india, but the ex-t transmissions either come from japan or from mexico (iirc? might be ohio or indiana). the accord motors and trans all come from ohio.

as far as my earlier comment, i was assuming that all the civic 1.5t 6mt axles were the same. if that's not even true it blows any theory i previously had out of the window. further, since the accord is a single point of origin model, it is significantly more likely to have some design differences from the civic axles for the same reason that the Si axles can be different if they all originate in india.

the other differences i noted from my accord test drive were that the top hats seem to be extended for additional travel and after staring at a number of photos pretty closely, i'm 99% sure accord front subframe is wider than the subframe shared by all the civics (although feel free to blow up the "all the civics" part of that statement, oy vey). it may be that the accord LCAs have the exact same geometry as the civic LCAs, which obviates any need to use accord axles in a civic.

tbh, i'm not sure why i'm even talking about axles, since the driveshaft shop will almost certainly pop out any axle one wants for the 1.5t and 2.0t platforms.

 

[bahndrvr]

seriously? i wonder if this is because of the point of origin for the various transaxles. i know the Si trans comes from india, but the ex-t transmissions either come from japan or from mexico (iirc? might be ohio or indiana). the accord motors and trans all come from ohio.

as far as my earlier comment, i was assuming that all the civic 1.5t 6mt axles were the same. if that's not even true it blows any theory i previously had out of the window. further, since the accord is a single point of origin model, it is significantly more likely to have some design differences from the civic axles for the same reason that the Si axles can be different if they all originate in india.

the other differences i noted from my accord test drive were that the top hats seem to be extended for additional travel and after staring at a number of photos pretty closely, i'm 99% sure accord front subframe is wider than the subframe shared by all the civics (although feel free to blow up the "all the civics" part of that statement, oy vey). it may be that the accord LCAs have the exact same geometry as the civic LCAs, which obviates any need to use accord axles in a civic.

tbh, i'm not sure why i'm even talking about axles, since the driveshaft shop will almost certainly pop out any axle one wants for the 1.5t and 2.0t platforms.

Si inner axles are larger for strength due to the LSD

 

[farqt]

oooooh, i see.. yah, then the accord axles are probably interchangeable (if possibly a bit longer?) than the EX-Ts.

either way, the accord aluminum LCAs are probably bolt-ons for all 1.5t civics, especially the Sis. replacing the front compliance bushing with superpro PU should yield improved front suspension dynamics.. more crashed 2018 accords will probably need to show up at wreckers before this theory can be tested, but the only other OE swap option is the R and that is significantly more complicated...

 

[bahndrvr]

oooooh, i see.. yah, then the accord axles are probably interchangeable (if possibly a bit longer?) than the EX-Ts.

either way, the accord aluminum LCAs are probably bolt-ons for all 1.5t civics, especially the Sis. replacing the front compliance bushing with superpro PU should yield improved front suspension dynamics.. more crashed 2018 accords will probably need to show up at wreckers before this theory can be tested, but the only other OE swap option is the R and that is significantly more complicated...

Well - eventually I will have R front suspension in my car car - the improvements the ymade over McPherson Strut are amazing and it's many years in the future but this car will be in the family for decades - now as fun commuter - eventually it will go through stages depending on where I live 1/4 mile terror at some point, and in autocross season swap a few parts and tear up the courses lol. The TypeR front setup will make a HUGE difference on the tracks...

 

[farqt]

if you go with the R front knuckles, LCAs, you have you to swap out the steering rack, you can't reuse the dampers because you don't have the suspension control unit compatible with them and then you likely need custom axles.

at that point you are much better off just trading in your non-r in 5 years in for a contemporary CTR, especially since all this swapping doesn't get you the 2.0t or the sensor adaptive suspension..

 

[bahndrvr]

if you go with the R front knuckles, LCAs, you have you to swap out the steering rack, you can't reuse the dampers because you don't have the suspension control unit compatible with them and then you likely need custom axles.

at that point you are much better off just trading in your non-r in 5 years in for a contemporary CTR, especially since all this swapping doesn't get you the 2.0t or the sensor adaptive suspension..

Nah, at the rate I drive will have over 200k on my car in 5 years - gas savings over that much commuting make the TypeR a non-point, honestly if I was spending TypeR money I would have bought a S3/Golf R or even RS over the Type R But to get a wrecked one down the line and make it work in my paid for car, will be right up my alley, especially if i'm able to stick it to classing in SCCA later down the road;-)

 

[farqt]

i expect that over the course of this generation the type r is going to significantly drop in price from MSRP to below. it's competitive against the golf (not to mention the lower TCO..) and the focus RS is disappearing. the STI is the closest competitor and STI pricing seems to be going up every year to be a tweener between the 235/m2 and, well, the CTR.

it's true that the CTR is a bad commuter as well as a seasonal car. that is also why i picked up an si rather than trying to stretch -- there is absolutely no way i would be willing to expose a CTR to the winters here.

who knows, i may be right up there with you swapping out my front suspension for a type R after my warranty ends . in the meantime, aluminum LCAs from the accord are super promising as a cheap but potentially very effective suspension dynamics upgrade..

 

[ApexEight]

i expect that over the course of this generation the type r is going to significantly drop in price from MSRP to below. it's competitive against the golf (not to mention the lower TCO..) and the focus RS is disappearing. the STI is the closest competitor and STI pricing seems to be going up every year to be a tweener between the 235/m2 and, well, the CTR.

it's true that the CTR is a bad commuter as well as a seasonal car. that is also why i picked up an si rather than trying to stretch -- there is absolutely no way i would be willing to expose a CTR to the winters here.

who knows, i may be right up there with you swapping out my front suspension for a type R after my warranty ends . in the meantime, aluminum LCAs from the accord are super promising as a cheap but potentially very effective suspension dynamics upgrade..

Benefits of the Accord LCAs? Link/part number? I'm assuming the Si's are steel? Any bushing/ball joint differences? Can't imagine the weight savings along would make a big difference.

 

[Zeffy94]

Not the greatest seasonal car perhaps, but I commute every day in my Type R and I’m perfectly fine with it. At worst the bumpy roads cause me to bounce a bit. Doesn’t bother me a bit.

 

[farqt]

left front arm is 51360-TVA-A04

the front bushing on it is fluid-filled for NVH. the rear compliance bushing is fluid-filled on both the Si and the accord.

the civic control arms are all stamped steel, cheap, but poor strength to weight. load bearing control arms like the front LCAs and rear trailing arms are key bits of unsprung weight (they need to actuate about the bushing axis at wheel hub vertical frequency..) and they serve as the lower mount for your front suspension, meaning that if they aren't rigid, they become uncontrolled springs in the system determining wheel rates.

eccentric PU bushings are also a key way to adjust caster in a mcpherson strut suspension.

finally, i suspect that the accord LCAs are 5-10mm longer than the civic pieces. this is 10-20mm of free front track without screwing with your scrub radius (which introduces torque steer). you can account for the camber changes with camber plates.

 

[ApexEight]

left front arm is 51360-TVA-A04

the front bushing on it is fluid-filled for NVH. the rear compliance bushing is fluid-filled on both the Si and the accord.

the civic control arms are all stamped steel, cheap, but poor strength to weight. load bearing control arms like the front LCAs and rear trailing arms are key bits of unsprung weight (they need to actuate about the bushing axis at wheel hub vertical frequency..) and they serve as the lower mount for your front suspension, meaning that if they aren't rigid, they become uncontrolled springs in the system determining wheel rates.

eccentric PU bushings are also a key way to adjust caster in a mcpherson strut suspension.

finally, i suspect that the accord LCAs are 5-10mm longer than the civic pieces. this is 10-20mm of free front track without screwing with your scrub radius (which introduces torque steer). you can account for the camber changes with camber plates.

Hmm, maybe you could swap the front accord bushing for the Si one? As far as I know, fluid-filled it bad for performance, for the reasons you listed. Interesting mod. Again, not sure how much of a difference you could actually feel and measure, but could be a nice upgrade if you're really running through the suspension.

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