2016-2019 Evaporator failures/leaks

[DRUSA]

Just wanted to share with some of you what I have been seeing in my area on a daily basis on the 10th gens (excluding Type R at this time). My area has not see the flood of condenser failures, it may be due to our climate (110F summers), but we have seen many compressor and now evaporator failures. From the compressors, it has been my personal experience that the front seal behind the a/c clutch is leaking. The compressor clutch will often appear oil soaked on the really bad ones, others will fail vacuum leak testing. The vacuum leak testing will keep failing until the compressor is replaced, I've had several whistle loudly when trying to evacuate them, usually a tell tale sign of failures.

I don't know what is going on with these evaporators but they appear to be deteriorating. When UV dye is added to the system, the evaporator looks to be very lightly peppered with the dye. I'm just letting this known in hopes that some of you that are having reoccurring issues can have this information. These chassis are having numerous A/C issues at once. Compressors, condensers, evaporators, etc. This repair is often much harder for techs to diagnose, requires very sensitive leak test equipment and is not visible without removing the part. Hopefully this helps out some of you and the techs fix your cars the first visit so you can get back to having fun again.

Repair requires removal of entire dash assembly down to the firewall. Failures have been on 2016-2019 so far, 15k-60k miles. The failures are very hit or miss, the cars vary greatly, no real pattern yet. The dark spots are oil/refrigerant from the system leaking.

 

[SDAlexander8]

Expecting another letter in the mail by the end of the year saying that the entire system is covered.

I lucked out and got a new condenser for free. This A/C system absolutely sucks. Even right after getting the Condenser replaced and system recharged, the air really doesn’t get that cold.

It takes 15-20 minutes of driving to really cool down the cabin and the compressor to stop bogging the engine.

A proper air conditioning system should feel ice cold within like 2 minutes. I’ve been in plenty of cars 3x older than my car with A/C that is so cold it hurts.

I’m not paying 2 grand to get my dash completely gutted to replace the evaporator. I’ll suffer til I get my TSB letter.

Get worried people. This is a shit show. And expect dealerships to be booked months out doing nothing but fixing 10th gen A/Cs.

 

[DRUSA]

I've found it usually takes a few years for manufacturers to get a refrigerant change down. Saw the same thing R12 to R134, R134 to YF now. Performance depends on the ambient conditions. Humidity bogs the system down. Helps to remember the A/C system doesn't make cold air, it just transfers hot air from the inside to the outside of the vehicle. Rolling down the windows for 30 seconds first getting into the vehicle, setting it to recirc and not fresh air, all cuts down on cool down times.

 

[Habanero]

I posted this elsewhere dunno if you saw it boss :

“UPDATE: The Vehicle Safety Defect Investigation is now open! If you own a vehicle that has a safety defect you believe should be covered by the warranty and it’s not, submit your information here.”

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit.../honda-class-action-alleges-civic-a-c-defect/

 

[DRUSA]

I posted this elsewhere dunno if you saw it boss :

“UPDATE: The Vehicle Safety Defect Investigation is now open! If you own a vehicle that has a safety defect you believe should be covered by the warranty and it’s not, submit your information here.”

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit.../honda-class-action-alleges-civic-a-c-defect/

Honda came out with a TSB regarding this issue, all 2016-2018 civics have 10yr/unlimited mile warranties now on condensers. TSB 19-091, dated Dec 11th 2019.

Per the bulletin:
" American Honda is extending the warranty on the A/C condenser to 10 years from the original date of purchase with unlimited miles. This warranty only covers vehicles that have a defective A/C condenser from the factory. The A/C condenser was not manufactured to specification. As a result, tiny holes may develop in the condenser tube walls that allows the refrigerant to leak out. "

I would expect something similar to come out for the evaporators next.

 

[Habanero]

Honda came out with a TSB regarding this issue, all 2016-2018 civics have 10yr/unlimited mile warranties now on condensers. TSB 19-091, dated Dec 11th 2019.

Per the bulletin:
" American Honda is extending the warranty on the A/C condenser to 10 years from the original date of purchase with unlimited miles. This warranty only covers vehicles that have a defective A/C condenser from the factory. The A/C condenser was not manufactured to specification. As a result, tiny holes may develop in the condenser tube walls that allows the refrigerant to leak out. "

I would expect something similar to come out for the evaporators next.

I was NOT with you until i read your last line lol- because it did seem from what I read it goes deeper than -one- part being defective. I have minor issues with the AC - does not always kick on - but some people cannot get it working well at all- even after the dealer "fixes" it. I dont live near a Honda dealer, its not practical for me to pay extra for oil changes etc just on the off chance they might be fair to me one day. If the class action does anything (besides make lawyers rich) it might just result in Honda recalling these cars and fixing them right.

 

[saiko21]

If multiple people report it on NHTSA then they investigate and Honda will issue a recall or TSB for it

 

[DRUSA]

If multiple people report it on NHTSA then they investigate and Honda will issue a recall or TSB for it

Differences between Product Updates/Bulletins and Recalls though.

Airbag inflators, ignition switches, etc these are all things that could cause immediate harm to the driver or cause the vehicle to malfunction resulting in an accident/personal injury. Product updates are component failures that do not result in a threat to customer safety, you can still operate a vehicle with the a/c off, you do it in the winter time.

This will most likely result in an extended product warranty to ensure customer satisfaction/brand trust. A class-action lawsuit to extend the warranty etc. Not every TSB is the result of a lawsuit as well, Honda will see massive failures and issue a bulletin internally as well.

At the end of the day, 10th gens are still a decent car. This appears to be failure on the end of the parts suppliers not manufacturing to design specs.

 

[CastorX]

Differences between Product Updates/Bulletins and Recalls though.

Airbag inflators, ignition switches, etc these are all things that could cause immediate harm to the driver or cause the vehicle to malfunction resulting in an accident/personal injury. Product updates are component failures that do not result in a threat to customer safety, you can still operate a vehicle with the a/c off, you do it in the winter time.

This will most likely result in an extended product warranty to ensure customer satisfaction/brand trust. A class-action lawsuit to extend the warranty etc. Not every TSB is the result of a lawsuit as well, Honda will see massive failures and issue a bulletin internally as well.

At the end of the day, 10th gens are still a decent car. This appears to be failure on the end of the parts suppliers not manufacturing to design specs.

I wonder who is the supplier of the A/C componenets.

 

[DRUSA]

I wonder who is the supplier of the A/C componenets.

Looked at a busted one right now, Keihin on the side.

 

[fazekas]

2016 Honda Civic Touring w/ 33,000 miles. Has been in the shop 4 times for AC problems:

2018/09 - Blowing hot air. Compressor and various components replaced by dealer shop Still under warranty, no charge.

2019/04 - Blowing hot air. Dealer/shop couldn't find leak, recharged refrigerant.

2019/12 - Blowing hot air. Compressor leak (now my second), now out of warranty, $1400 quote. A lot of back and forth between dealer, district parts manager, and case manager at Honda. Received "goodwill assistance", price reduced to $174.

2020/10 - Blowing hot air again, this time Evaporator Core. $2000 quote. a lot of back and forth between dealer, district parts manager, and case manager at Honda. Price reduced to $695, BUT the part has been on national backorder, so who knows when it will actually get fixed.

The AC system in this model year is either poorly designed, components cheaply manufactured, or a combo of both.

I've driven and owned MANY vehicles in 40 years of driving, have never, ever owned a car with AC failure, let alone multiple. May have needed refrigerant replenish, but thats after many years of ownership.

First impressions are important, this was my first Honda, and my last.

 

[DRUSA]

First impressions are important, this was my first Honda, and my last.

Don't blame you. But to be fair, I've been at Honda for 15yrs now working on everything we've had, this has been the worst a/c related issue I've seen. This sort of thing usually always happens when we are forced to do a refrigerant type change. Happened when we went from R12 to R134a, and now it's happening from R134a to R1234yf.

What's hard right now is Honda is being a tight ass with the wallet. They have been losing their ass for the last few years due to the Takata Airbag recalls, costing the company billions of dollars. They've issued several internal memos that goodwill warranty has been reduced and other measures are being taken to stop the financial bleeding, unfortunately the customers are the ones being hurt the most here.

 

[CastorX]

Don't blame you. But to be fair, I've been at Honda for 15yrs now working on everything we've had, this has been the worst a/c related issue I've seen. This sort of thing usually always happens when we are forced to do a refrigerant type change. Happened when we went from R12 to R134a, and now it's happening from R134a to R1234yf.

What's hard right now is Honda is being a tight ass with the wallet. They have been losing their ass for the last few years due to the Takata Airbag recalls, costing the company billions of dollars. They've issued several internal memos that goodwill warranty has been reduced and other measures are being taken to stop the financial bleeding, unfortunately the customers are the ones being hurt the most here.

Isnt taketa supposed to pay for Honda for the damage they’ve done? Or they are out of buisness now(bankrupt)?

 

[CastorX]

Don't blame you. But to be fair, I've been at Honda for 15yrs now working on everything we've had, this has been the worst a/c related issue I've seen. This sort of thing usually always happens when we are forced to do a refrigerant type change. Happened when we went from R12 to R134a, and now it's happening from R134a to R1234yf.

What's hard right now is Honda is being a tight ass with the wallet. They have been losing their ass for the last few years due to the Takata Airbag recalls, costing the company billions of dollars. They've issued several internal memos that goodwill warranty has been reduced and other measures are being taken to stop the financial bleeding, unfortunately the customers are the ones being hurt the most here.

So basically sooner or later ALL A/C components will fail in all 10th gen civics right?

 

[itsmavv]

Just got my 17’ Hatch last year, love everything about it but the AC started blowing hot air as well. My evaporator is leaking and the dealership wanted $2,000+ for repairs. Here’s hoping Honda listens and announces a fix for all of us. I would love to have AC in SoCal.

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