Honda wants to reclaim FWD Nurburgring record with 10th Gen Civic Type R

[The_Fenix_2.0]

AWD 2017 Crv 1.5T .. looking forward to the test drive. I'm going to give it hell

It's an absolute hoot to drive. The interior is gorgeous! And the new 1.5T is a great fit for it.

Sponsored

 

[JYR]

And yet we still see people posting questions about the Type-R being AWD. Sigh.

The internets says it is.

 

[HondaPro]

Looking forward to the Hondata video on the 2017 Crv AWD 1.5T vs 2015 Si...

It's an absolute hoot to drive. The interior is gorgeous! And the new 1.5T is a great fit for it.

 

[PirelliPZero]

The car is going to be lighter and stiffer due to the new constructions and platform, but most important I think is the longer wheelbase and lower profile of the car. Higher corner speed and less drag.

Don't forget the switch from simple torsion beam to a multi-link rear suspension, and the gas tank being moved from under the front seat to the rear for better weight distribution. All these fundamental changes should add up to quite a bit by themselves.

The max lap time though will be determined by tires. Will Honda offer an optional set of race-ready DOT tires (as they do on the NSX, and as the Clubsport S has) in order to post that maximum lap figure? Or will they continue to equip the CTR with one factory set and run the lap on that? Personally I think if the new CTR can beat the limited, stripped-down Clubsport S with standard tires - which it will - that's more than enough, and has greater integrity. In the future Honda can resort to the VW tricks if the record gets beaten again. (Or Mugen will offer a limited edition to do it for them.)

 

[sanderholland]

Don't forget the switch from simple torsion beam to a multi-link rear suspension, and the gas tank being moved from under the front seat to the rear for better weight distribution. All these fundamental changes should add up to quite a bit by themselves.

The max lap time though will be determined by tires. Will Honda offer an optional set of race-ready DOT tires (as they do on the NSX, and as the Clubsport S has) in order to post that maximum lap figure? Or will they continue to equip the CTR with one factory set and run the lap on that? Personally I think if the new CTR can beat the limited, stripped-down Clubsport S with standard tires - which it will - that's more than enough, and has greater integrity. In the future Honda can resort to the VW tricks if the record gets beaten again. (Or Mugen will offer a limited edition to do it for them.)

True! Although I always loved the magic seats in our euro civic, for a better weight distribution it is a better choice!

Tires are always difficult with Honda I think. I never understood why they went for the continentals on the euro Type-R. They always had Bridgestone (Japanese) tires, for the Type-R's and S2000. Can't remember the factory tires on the original NSX, that was before I started working for Honda... I think they will continue with continental tires here in Holland, just that one option. But I found out the front tires don't last much longer than 10.000km's, so you can go for better track tires pretty soon ;-) Think you will get different tires for the US. Normal Civic's always get Bridgestone, Michelin or Yokohama tires here, what do you get over there?

 

[JYR]

Honda has forever put horrible tires on most of their vehicles. The 9th gen Si (the only sporty car Honda offered at the time) wore a ContiProContact tire. -a grand touring tire, as original equipment. The Conti Sport 5p was available, to the tune of something like $1,200 as an add on. $1,200 would buy you a couple sets of Pilot Super Sports, which are light years ahead of the sport 5p.

The TrofeoR, which is being offered as an add on for the NSX is a great tire, but great for the car its built for. If Pirelli builds a TrofeoR for the CTR, it will be a great tire. -mind you these are also DOT competition tires with zero intention on offering any sort of decent tread life. That said, I would not buy them because they will come with an extreme price tag. Michelin Pilot Super Sports (or the new offering they will soon have out) will be a great option, and if you want something more suited for the track and daily drivability, feast your eyes on a tire like the Bridgestone Potenza RE71R, Dunlop Direzza Z2 (soon to be Z3), or even the Falken RT615. Another words, there will likely be a better option to whatever Honda puts on the R. If you want a tire that will compete with the TrofeoR, look at the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2.

 

[s2kdriver80]

I'm curious how the longer wheelbase of the newer model would affect tossability and eagerness to change direction. Clearly, the new CTR would dominate a car like the S2000 number-wise (track times, possibly quarter mile, grip, etc). But what about the "feel" of driving and the "rawness", the ability to just dart into the next lane with the flick of the wrist? I've never driven a Type R so I wouldn't know. Do Type Rs drive like go karts as well? Are they still "fun" to drive when cruising around in normal traffic? That's what I like about the S2000, fun to drive no matter what.

 

[staylurkn]

I'm curious how the longer wheelbase of the newer model would affect tossability and eagerness to change direction. Clearly, the new CTR would dominate a car like the S2000 number-wise (track times, possibly quarter mile, grip, etc). But what about the "feel" of driving and the "rawness", the ability to just dart into the next lane with the flick of the wrist? I've never driven a Type R so I wouldn't know. Do Type Rs drive like go karts as well? Are they still "fun" to drive when cruising around in normal traffic? That's what I like about the S2000, fun to drive no matter what.

From what I've read about the Euro-spec Hatch, it's along the lines of smooth and composed then agile and tossable. In this respect, I see the 10th Gen R as more of an Accord Euro R in spirit (and size) than say, an EK9. It won't be a stripped-out special. What it will be is the most "usable" Type R, from the power band, to the ride comfort, to the practicality of it being based on the biggest Civic ever. So no, probably not as raw. But hey, once boost kicks in for the first time, you might have a new definition of raw.

 

[sanderholland]

From what I've read about the Euro-spec Hatch, it's along the lines of smooth and composed then agile and tossable. In this respect, I see the 10th Gen R as more of an Accord Euro R in spirit (and size) than say, an EK9. It won't be a stripped-out special. What it will be is the most "usable" Type R, from the power band, to the ride comfort, to the practicality of it being based on the biggest Civic ever. So no, probably not as raw. But hey, once boost kicks in for the first time, you might have a new definition of raw.

I think you are wrong there. I owned a S2000 for years, and a new Type-R as well. The thrill of V-TEC kicking in never gets old or boring, but you have to drive faster then allowed to get that thrill. Also, although a S2000 has lots of grip (I've raced with one as well, I'll ad a picture below), oversteer is always around the corner when you get on the throttle to fast. Steering is just very precise in the S, but keep in mind that was one of the first eletronic powersteering Honda build in a production car.

The Type-R has LOTS of power from around 2000 rpm, but still revs until 7000. It's not like real V-TEC kicking in anymore, it's a big ass turbo boost you feel at low RPM, and V-TEC just smoothly takes over. So you've got a very linear accelleration from low RPM's all the way through the rev's. But the steering in this car is just insane!! It is sooo direct, so easy to just get it where you want it to go. The ride is far from smooth or comfortable; I never liked rides that were longer than 2 hours. If someones ever been to Amsterdam: we've got a lot of speedbumps and old roads here, and this car is made for smooth tarmac, not for the real road conditions .

I do expect the new R to be a little bit smoother, that's what you guys like in the US. A euro CR-V has a totally different ride than your US version. Totally different suspention I think even. But still, we can expect a GREAT Type-R. Our Euro version still looks pretty 'strange', the new one is a much more 'mature' car I think.

 

[JYR]

The ride is far from smooth or comfortable; I never liked rides that were longer than 2 hours. If someones ever been to Amsterdam: we've got a lot of speedbumps and old roads here, and this car is made for smooth tarmac, not for the real road conditions .

I do expect the new R to be a little bit smoother, that's what you guys like in the US. A euro CR-V has a totally different ride than your US version. Totally different suspention I think even. But still, we can expect a GREAT Type-R. Our Euro version still looks pretty 'strange', the new one is a much more 'mature' car I think.

And thats pretty much much what every review of the current R indicates; the R is a very rough riding car.

My thoughts on this:
1) It's a car designed for the track and nothing more -Honda's "race car for the road"
2) The next R, while on a completely different chassis, will likely retail the "race car for the road" feel.

 

[A2typeR]

Since it won't be my daily I don't really car how stiff the ride is.

Has anyone compared the latest gen STi(I owned it, stiff but not to harsh for a daily driver. I mean it's not a Cadillac) or focus RS(which I heard was really really stiff no wheel time yet)to the 2015 Type R.

@sanderholland how is the ride from normal to type R mode? Which did you use for daily and spirited driving on the streets?

Thanks

PS that S2000 race car is so awesome

 

[staylurkn]

I think you are wrong there. I owned a S2000 for years, and a new Type-R as well. The thrill of V-TEC kicking in never gets old or boring, but you have to drive faster then allowed to get that thrill. Also, although a S2000 has lots of grip (I've raced with one as well, I'll ad a picture below), oversteer is always around the corner when you get on the throttle to fast. Steering is just very precise in the S, but keep in mind that was one of the first eletronic powersteering Honda build in a production car.

The Type-R has LOTS of power from around 2000 rpm, but still revs until 7000. It's not like real V-TEC kicking in anymore, it's a big ass turbo boost you feel at low RPM, and V-TEC just smoothly takes over. So you've got a very linear accelleration from low RPM's all the way through the rev's. But the steering in this car is just insane!! It is sooo direct, so easy to just get it where you want it to go. The ride is far from smooth or comfortable; I never liked rides that were longer than 2 hours. If someones ever been to Amsterdam: we've got a lot of speedbumps and old roads here, and this car is made for smooth tarmac, not for the real road conditions .

I do expect the new R to be a little bit smoother, that's what you guys like in the US. A euro CR-V has a totally different ride than your US version. Totally different suspention I think even. But still, we can expect a GREAT Type-R. Our Euro version still looks pretty 'strange', the new one is a much more 'mature' car I think.

Can't argue agains't someone who's driven both lol, appreciate your insight. Which car would you say feels more special at low speeds? Do you have to thrash the R to feel engaged?

 

[Design]

I'm interested to know what turbo they're using. Probably a TD05 with a 60-65mm compressor. The fact they can spool as early as 2K and hold boost through redline on a single scroll in impressive.

 

[sanderholland]

Since it won't be my daily I don't really car how stiff the ride is.

Has anyone compared the latest gen STi(I owned it, stiff but not to harsh for a daily driver. I mean it's not a Cadillac) or focus RS(which I heard was really really stiff no wheel time yet)to the 2015 Type R.

@sanderholland how is the ride from normal to type R mode? Which did you use for daily and spirited driving on the streets?

Thanks

PS that S2000 race car is so awesome

The normal mode is 'okay', the R-mode is crazy. My tooth fillings almost fell out on a rough road ;-) I hardly ever used the R-mode, only on the circuit and a very clean winding road, but we don't have those much here in holland...

 

[sanderholland]

Can't argue agains't someone who's driven both lol, appreciate your insight. Which car would you say feels more special at low speeds? Do you have to thrash the R to feel engaged?

The Type-R is fast at every speeds. Only problem for me was: you really can't drive slow in this car..... That's definately an advantage for the S2000 for me. You really have to push and keep it in the V-TEC area to be fast, but the Type-R is fast in every gear and at pretty much every RPM. And it's extremely fast when you push! Winter is coming, so the S2000 is stored right now, but can't wait to get the V-TEC sensation again in summer, it really never gets old! But I really really really miss the Type-R, it's just such a thrilling car to drive. It just really feels right.

I told my customers who bought a Type-R from me, who were also looking at different models: Every car manufacturer can use an existing model, put on some skirts, big wheels and a big turbo on an engine, and have a fast car. But that's just not what Honda does. They perfected a great V-TEC engine which a small turbo (compared to others), and looked at every little detail of the car to improve it. I never liked the big ass spoiler on the back, but I loved the fact that they just wanted it there, because the car needs it in corners. They also used some WTCC aero on the car, as well as some great improvements to the suspension. I might even have some powerpoint slides from Honda R&D about the Type-R. I'll look them up and post them for you!

Sponsored