Hot running = lack of power?

Having just done 4 days at the Nurburgring 2 wet and 2 dry I found that the coolant system is woeful, as on the 2nd lap of the 'ring in 18c heat the coolant temp gauge was at 75% max, still amazed that Honda did not include an oil temp sender as standard!

Anyway, zero oil or water consumption but I would like to throw 2 questions out to those who track their cars:

1) I get a "squeak" on lift off from the power at high RPMs (5k+), I suspect it is exhaust or engine mount related, anyone else had this and found the fix?

2) When getting back on the power after braking for a corner and with the RPM still around 4k the throttle/engine response was very flat even with the pedal buried, I run 99oct fuel and the boost gauge showed 1.5bar, air temp 18-20c, 70% humidity, I did not have issues on the 2 wets days, guess with the IC and coolant rad getting sprayed with water every second helped! I don't want to start replacing the IC and rad just yet, has anyone tried this kit and if so did it help?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-2016-18-HONDA-CIVIC-10TH-GEN-BLK-JDM-CTR-STYLE-FRONT-HOOD-GRILL-EYE-LID/372569475102?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D80d0a5d35a7747dc9a74915dc31aabc3%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D283444493713%26itm%3D372569475102&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A0560be55-7fc2-11e9-8243-74dbd180061c%7Cparentrq%3Af4879fbe16a0ac3c13f80cd8fff27629%7Ciid%3A1

Tons of people in this forum have, for all the 10th gens, not just the CTR.

The grille and a turbo blanket are the two cheap, easy, and "non-invasive" cooling mods that are very effective.

Now that being said, it's possible your throttle response is bad in that situation simply because of physics, ie your engine is getting a little starved during the high-g turns, but on the other hand I thought the CTR had baffles in the fuel tank to avoid that, so

I haven't been on track yet but on enthusiast driving on my last Scotland tour the limitations of the cooling became very obvious on the road. Temps were 27c (yup in Scotland) and I noticed a drop in power. If I ever do a track day in mine, intercooler and turbo blanket are a must along with braided hoses, pads and better fluid.

Seeing as how the bumper has to come off to do the grill anyway then I guess a new IC would be a good idea, maybe even the rad and extra oil cooler plus blanket (the list goes on <g>), I was just surprised as how flat the performance went even with the throttle fully open if felt like it was in just maintain the speed mode controlled by the traction control system (all fully turned off BTW) and it left nothing to add throttle if the conditions required it for safety reasons. I like to keep power on in the turn and add as the exits opens, when hot this is just not possible with a stock car.

FK2R is slightly different. but IC is almost essential. it'll juts feel sluggish on pickup if your having intake temp problems.
Instead of coolant temps, Oil cooler is also something i'd highly recommend. only done 21c UK trackdays but can fairly easily get oil upto 125-130c after 15mins, which seems to be upper area for synth oil. the HEL Oilcooler is seeing me around 115c max after 20-25min sessions which is my limit before i notice concentration falling off.

only going off what others say and my own thoughts... the ebay grill will improve things but i doubt it's going to make massive difference for track. noticable on road, but not enough for track imo.

veehexx said:

FK2R is slightly different. but IC is almost essential. it'll juts feel sluggish on pickup if your having intake temp problems.
Instead of coolant temps, Oil cooler is also something i'd highly recommend. only done 21c UK trackdays but can fairly easily get oil upto 125-130c after 15mins, which seems to be upper area for synth oil. the HEL Oilcooler is seeing me around 115c max after 20-25min sessions which is my limit before i notice concentration falling off.

only going off what others say and my own thoughts... the ebay grill will improve things but i doubt it's going to make massive difference for track. noticable on road, but not enough for track imo.

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Good advise, thanks. I take it just have used a sandwich plate to get an oil temp sender fitted, did that come as part of the HEL kit? Is that the one that sits in front of the rad? I can see that fitting a decent OC would also help the coolant temps as the oil to water factory cooler obviously "balances" the temp between the two fluids, which is fine if the rad and air flow are good enough.

Run with the AC on to.

VTECMatt said:

Run with the AC on to.

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I do but I suspect that just adds to the engine load, although at full throttle the A/C is turned off automatically ... or do you mean run with the heater turned on and no A/C?

Heater on on full blast,

VTECMatt said:

Heater on on full blast,

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Not for me, I like the A/C on and the windows shut, but I guess it might in interesting to see what difference it makes so I will try that in July when I am next back on the Nurburgring, but I will also add the turbo blanket and grill as a minimum.

I'm not convinced with the grill, the car has gone through millions of pounds of r&d, I can't believe that it will do anything. I have no knowledge in this area so happy to be proven wrong!

VTECMatt said:

I'm not convinced with the grill, the car has gone through millions of pounds of r&d, I can't believe that it will do anything. I have no knowledge in this area so happy to be proven wrong!

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It makes sense that the grill had to be designed so as not to create too much drag for fuel economy, and therefore the cooling can be improved at the expense of increased drag.

Arcam said:

Good advise, thanks. I take it just have used a sandwich plate to get an oil temp sender fitted, did that come as part of the HEL kit? Is that the one that sits in front of the rad? I can see that fitting a decent OC would also help the coolant temps as the oil to water factory cooler obviously "balances" the temp between the two fluids, which is fine if the rad and air flow are good enough.

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good thing you asked. HEL cooler doesnt come with sensor ports. not really enough room on the sandwich plate for them. what i did was add in 2 inline sensor adaptors that ran in the oil cooler loop; oil temp and oil pressure.
onboard car gauges don't alert when there's an issue and on the FK2, there is a few seconds smoothing on oil pressure and you have to make a conscious effort to look at them. my aftermarket gauges (stack ProControl) are in line of sight and blink red when out of my defined thresholds.

before oil cooler i ran a simple sensor-only sandwich plate.

HEL/Forge oil cooler don't have room on the sandwich plate for a oilstat on the FK2 so the HEL comes with an external inline one. Mostly down to the sump design being so close to the oil filter size so does limit some options out there. FK8 subframe seems to allow far more room than the Fk2 design on the front side.

I'm not convinced running with AC on will help. Will just add more heat to the engine bay. While i'm not 100% sure on the order of radiators, its definitely intercooler first, then i think AC condenser, then water radiator. assuming thats right, running AC on will raise the ambient air for the next radiator.
while the fans would be running all the time to create air flow, once your over maybe 40-50mph then i'd expect them to not aide.

again, speaking from the sidelines as the Fk2 doesn't have issues, the issue is cooling the water. Assuming good airflow through the bumper, thats the responsibility of the radiator to disperse the heat, not performing? upgrade it!

i found somewhere on here a post on custom OBD2 PID codes which included IAT's. iirc there was only one sensor, post-IC so perfect to log to see what your IAT's are up to and see if that could be your cause. IC seems to be a worthy mod to handle temps. i found it fixed my issues in UK summer rushhour commute (TDI-North's cooler, but thats no longer sold. specifically opted for the smallest improved IC to aid spool times) and not had issues on trackdays yet.

thought about running without the grill for a test session? free test to know how much the grill might help.
That and the OBD2 custom PID IAT are both free & easy checks to do.

veehexx said:

I'm not convinced running with AC on will help. Will just add more heat to the engine bay.

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Running AC will definitely not help--but running the heater full blast sure will!

Lots of guys racing their 10th gens do just that with the windows down.

Your “flat” throttle response is simply due to the IAT2 temp entering your throttle body. HOT air is not efficient in combustion; so, your ECU is retarding timing to save your motor. Being on the stock IC and in a constant state of boost, your turbo is generating a great deal of heat that your IC cannot keep up with. This is especially noticeable when you come off throttle and the negative vacuum creates stagnation and the IC core absorbs heat.
Turbo wraps are not going to save you there. An upgraded IC will keep you cooler and recover faster when getting back on boost.