Warranty issues after tuning? 2020 FK7 Civic hatch

[kcvpr]

I just purchased a new 2020 civic sport hatch 6spd, and with around 600 miles so far I am finding the rev hang between shifts pretty frustrating.

I have owned a couple tuned cars in the past and know that the difference is usually quite big. On the most recent vehicle many people ended up having ring land issues which led to many engines blowing up. Most people who had issues had been tuned, and some had their warranties denied because the manufacturer found out they were tuned even after the car was returned back to stock (re-flashed to stock tune).

Has anyone ran into issues with their tuned 1.5L turbo engines, and if so was warranty coverage an issue? What kind of makes things worse is that I paid extra for the extended warranty... Due to bad experiences with my last car, having the extra piece of mind keeps my stress level low lol.

Also first post!

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[IronFusion]

Technically, it shouldn't. But, you'll pay more than it's worth to fight that fight, if something breaks and Honda chooses to blame a tune.
BBB, and filing with the State AG does absolutely nothing unless, for the latter, there are enough egregious complaints to form a class action.
They can see if the car has ever been tuned, though they can't retrieve the parameters of the tune.
IMO, and not holding any liability for my statement... Unless something breaks that could be ignorantly blamed on a tune, you are fine- it's more a matter of your comfort making the change with a tune and perceived risk of a failure due to the tune or independently occurring.
Folks will say, "they can't void your warranty becauer the Magnuson-Moss Act says they have to prove your alteration caused the problem." Technically true. But two things:

1. MMA is intended to protect and allow consumers to use OE-equivalent parts for replacement. Modifications, not so much. Software is murky with little/no precedent. The stock software is functioning fine, an owner chooses without cause (replacement) to alter the software. Unless you tune just one time, you also have no way to prove what you altered in the sw.
2. RE: Precedent. The dealership can say "we see you tuned, so we're not going to replace or fix your engine under warranty." Sure they "need" to prove your change caused the issue... But when? To whom? So, what's your recourse? Get an attorney and file suit? At $200-500 an hour for representation, with a weak case that requires a liberal interpretation of the MMA by a judge, and Honda of America having a relatively endless budget and ability to stretch out the proceeding, causing your expenses to continue building... You're not going to win, and they're not going to settle.

Do a risk-benefit analysis. How likely do you feel the alteration is to cause an issue or be likely to receive blame from a heartless technician who wants to please their supervisor by reducing dealership expenses for eating the cost of repair?

I have personal experience that converted me to being more realistic about this. And I bought the extended warranty too. My axle bearing is leaking fluid. Like... There are splashes and drips on the mounting, engine pan, and underbody tray. I asked them to replace it. That's like a $230 part (CV Axle) with maybe $150-200 in shop labor for them to do. They first told me there were no signs of fluid leak. I sent pictures. They said maybe when the oil was last changed some was spilled and never cleaned up. I pointed out the drips on parts well above the drain valve I have been using for the last 2 changes, and I attach a tube to the valve so the oil drains 2ft down directly into a drain pan. Then they revised, again, and said my aftermarket downpipe caused more heat than stock and was melting bearing grease. I pointed out the downpipe is in front of the engine and the bearing behind. They wrote on the service invoice my aftermarket pipe caused grease to melt. Oddly, and a bit contradictory, that the grease leaking is normal. When I refused to sign the invoice, the mouth-breathing tech threatened to call the police on me for refusing to sign and forcing them to store my vehicle on their premesis despite the service being complete. I filed a complaint with Honda of America, the BBB, and with my State AG. To get my car, I didn't have to sign, but I had to take off from work a day so I could go to the dealership during business hours and argue with the service manager. They put in my vehicle record that I had been personally performing oil changes on my car, replaced the downpipe on my own, and had installed a drain valve in place of the factory drain bolt in the engine.

Whenever I take the underbody tray off my car, I still have leaked bearing fluid to clean off, from the engine mount and pan too. If I ever have an issue tracking back to this fluid, I'll basically have to put UV dye in my oil to prove it's not oil.

Recognize that you can't win, and nobody cares unless their interest aligns with yours such that they can make worthwhile money (class action). That can be either freeing or fear-provoking when making decisions. How you deal with this reality is up to you.

 

[kcvpr]

Technically, it shouldn't. But, you'll pay more than it's worth to fight that fight, if something breaks and Honda chooses to blame a tune.
BBB, and filing with the State AG does absolutely nothing unless, for the latter, there are enough egregious complaints to form a class action.
They can see if the car has ever been tuned, though they can't retrieve the parameters of the tune.
IMO, and not holding any liability for my statement... Unless something breaks that could be ignorantly blamed on a tune, you are fine- it's more a matter of your comfort making the change with a tune and perceived risk of a failure due to the tune or independently occurring.
Folks will say, "they can't void your warranty becauer the Magnuson-Moss Act says they have to prove your alteration caused the problem." Technically true. But two things:

1. MMA is intended to protect and allow consumers to use OE-equivalent parts for replacement. Modifications, not so much. Software is murky with little/no precedent. The stock software is functioning fine, an owner chooses without cause (replacement) to alter the software. Unless you tune just one time, you also have no way to prove what you altered in the sw.
2. RE: Precedent. The dealership can say "we see you tuned, so we're not going to replace or fix your engine under warranty." Sure they "need" to prove your change caused the issue... But when? To whom? So, what's your recourse? Get an attorney and file suit? At $200-500 an hour for representation, with a weak case that requires a liberal interpretation of the MMA by a judge, and Honda of America having a relatively endless budget and ability to stretch out the proceeding, causing your expenses to continue building... You're not going to win, and they're not going to settle.

Do a risk-benefit analysis. How likely do you feel the alteration is to cause an issue or be likely to receive blame from a heartless technician who wants to please their supervisor by reducing dealership expenses for eating the cost of repair?

I have personal experience that converted me to being more realistic about this. And I bought the extended warranty too. My axle bearing is leaking fluid. Like... There are splashes and drips on the mounting, engine pan, and underbody tray. I asked them to replace it. That's like a $230 part (CV Axle) with maybe $150-200 in shop labor for them to do. They first told me there were no signs of fluid leak. I sent pictures. They said maybe when the oil was last changed some was spilled and never cleaned up. I pointed out the drips on parts well above the drain valve I have been using for the last 2 changes, and I attach a tube to the valve so the oil drains 2ft down directly into a drain pan. Then they revised, again, and said my aftermarket downpipe caused more heat than stock and was melting bearing grease. I pointed out the downpipe is in front of the engine and the bearing behind. They wrote on the service invoice my aftermarket pipe caused grease to melt. Oddly, and a bit contradictory, that the grease leaking is normal. When I refused to sign the invoice, the mouth-breathing tech threatened to call the police on me for refusing to sign and forcing them to store my vehicle on their premesis despite the service being complete. I filed a complaint with Honda of America, the BBB, and with my State AG. To get my car, I didn't have to sign, but I had to take off from work a day so I could go to the dealership during business hours and argue with the service manager. They put in my vehicle record that I had been personally performing oil changes on my car, replaced the downpipe on my own, and had installed a drain valve in place of the factory drain bolt in the engine.

Whenever I take the underbody tray off my car, I still have leaked bearing fluid to clean off, from the engine mount and pan too. If I ever have an issue tracking back to this fluid, I'll basically have to put UV dye in my oil to prove it's not oil.

Recognize that you can't win, and nobody cares unless their interest aligns with yours such that they can make worthwhile money (class action). That can be either freeing or fear-provoking when making decisions. How you deal with this reality is up to you.

Thanks for your reply! That's what I needed to know, seems to be the same story as my last car that I had tuned (except far less engine issues). As much as I hate the rev hang, it seems I should do the responsible thing and wait out the warranty at least 2-3 years to be safe.

 

[Shankmeyster]

Or you could run the Stage 0 tune on KTuner and have stock settings without rev hang. Ultimately it's your choice though.

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