I think the LSD should be standard on all Civics

saz468

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I drove my 71 Mustang with limited slip rear end and 295/55/16 tires in Colorado snow a few times and it plowed through the snow like a champ
yes I had both on my 83 mustang and 81 F100 pickup it made both vehicles drive better in bad weather especially snow
Profits dominate their minds.
Unfortunately this statement is very true for all manufacturers most or all is run by investment groups that looks at the dollar instead of the product that’s why most build SUVs not for popular demand its because it’s cheaper to build one model vehicle on the line than retooling the line to build another model ( every manufacturer has a SUV) which will be the norm within twenty years give or take I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a corvette SUV in that time like the mustang



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Gruber

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To the OP its a good suggestion but Honda is a bit obsessive about profit margins these days and ever since Soichiro Honda died so long ago...its not the same company. Profits dominate their minds. Plus they shoehorn buyers into a group and you have to accept whatever they decide goes with that car. There is no ala cart ordering what you want from the factory.
Well, not everyone is the same. I like the way Honda does it. Honda's lack of a million options and "packages" and nickel'n'diming for every detail, and their having instead just several trims, was a major reason why I bought my first Honda. And it's one of the reasons I won't even touch some car makes where they do the "à la carte." The truth is, no one lets you pick options item by item without a sky high markup (like some luxury brands). You can even have any color you can imagine. For a kidney.
With Honda it's simple - buy the top trim, or the next one.
 

James3spearchucker

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Well, not everyone is the same. I like the way Honda does it. Honda's lack of a million options and "packages" and nickel'n'diming for every detail, and their having instead just several trims, was a major reason why I bought my first Honda. And it's one of the reasons I won't even touch some car makes where they do the "à la carte." The truth is, no one lets you pick options item by item without a sky high markup (like some luxury brands). You can even have any color you can imagine. For a kidney.
With Honda it's simple - buy the top trim, or the next one.
Let me guess. You are a burger and fries sort of guy? Honda was not like this before. Honda during Soichiro's rein always sought continuous improvements and perfection. Profit was not everything and the exterior designs looked refined and sublime. It was during this time that the Honda name became legendary. You could mix and match stereo components. This is when everyone had a reason to love Honda. It's a different world today. They want you to accept the car or fork out almost twice the money for the next model up. Mods today are usually not even discussed. People just get computer tuning. Wow... that's clearly not enough for my customization bug. But I ignored people telling me to be happy. I took off lots of panels. I built my own exhaust. I put new wheels. I still have not tackled the audio but a friend of mine did on his CRV. Honda says you can't mix and match anything or (total destruction and mayhem will ensue??). You have got to buck the trend. My Type R seats work just fine. Of course Honda lied about the steering wheel. Its not all leather. Its 50% rubber/50% leather so I will need to change that. Rant is over.
 

saz468

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Well, not everyone is the same. I like the way Honda does it. Honda's lack of a million options and "packages" and nickel'n'diming for every detail, and their having instead just several trims, was a major reason why I bought my first Honda. And it's one of the reasons I won't even touch some car makes where they do the "à la carte." The truth is, no one lets you pick options item by item without a sky high markup (like some luxury brands). You can even have any color you can imagine. For a kidney.
With Honda it's simple - buy the top trim, or the next one.
A lot of manufacturers have done trim packages since the eighties
it makes manufacturing run without stopping the line and it’s cheaper for them back in the sixties someone could order a base model Chevy belair with a 427 big block that was cool at the time to customize a car on the line but it does back up production and time is money personally I like trim packages because ordering your self
you may miss out on some useful options
 
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VarmintCong

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I disagree. Had you drove an AWD car on non dry/clean roads?
There is no comparison dude. Not even close.
Yes, my wife has had AWD cars for 15 years, a WRX and then Outback. She refuses to use two sets of wheels so we have all season tires on it year round, usually Nokian.

They're great at accelerating and going in snow, but my FWD and RWD cars corner and stop better since they always have snow tires. So you get an uneven mix in the AWD cars w/ all seasons that make them a little unsafe imo. It's a victory for marketing over reality.

In the rain, the AWD cars are great if you want to drive 80 mph in the pouring rain. But if you slow down a bit in the rain, there's really no benefit.

It's a different story if you get into the 300 hp range, then AWD is more beneficial vs FWD.
 

Gruber

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Let me guess. You are a burger and fries sort of guy? Honda was not like this before. Honda during Soichiro's rein always sought continuous improvements and perfection. Profit was not everything and the exterior designs looked refined and sublime. It was during this time that the Honda name became legendary. You could mix and match stereo components. This is when everyone had a reason to love Honda. It's a different world today.
When was that time when Honda civic was refined and sublime? :hmm: :dunno: When was it that you matched stereo components on the civic? It was called a radio, the way I remember it, with a cassette deck for luxury. Soichiro Honda left us in 1991. Almost 30 years ago. Civics were quite crude at that time.

Burger and fries is actually a perfect example. Sorry, I'm not a burger and fries guy, but when I do get fast food, I definitely order "number three, please." I laugh at people who think McDonalds is a five star French restaurant and give detailed instructions how to make a hamburger, like "no onions and lettuce, double mayo, only a dab of ketchup, pickles thinly sliced, on one half only s'il vous plaît, merci beaucoup." :rofl:
Civic is like a hamburger meal. You can still choose if you want fries with that. If I wanted a "bespoke" car, I would think about a Bentley or Rolls Royce, or at least a mass-produced luxury car. These are like a nice restaurant, where you can have it your way....
 
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civicmanic

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Honda's biggest rival is Toyota, not Subaru. In fact Subaru is a niche brand that doesn't sell much. Honda/Toyota does not look at Subaru as a threat. So they won't be adopting their business model.

LSD's are available in the aftermarket. Anybody who wants one can have one. Most don't want to pay the price for it though, which is why they don't have them on all models.
 
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VarmintCong

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Honda's biggest rival is Toyota, not Subaru. In fact Subaru is a niche brand that doesn't sell much. Honda/Toyota does not look at Subaru as a threat. So they won't be adopting their business model.
In 2007, Honda sold 1.37 million cars in the US. Subaru sold 187,000 that year.

In 2019, Honda sold 1.45 million cars, Subaru sold 700,000.

Subaru sales grew 274% during that time, Honda sales grew 5.8%. Toyota grew -0.4%.

Oh, they're very concerned about Subaru, trust me.
 

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Yes, my wife has had AWD cars for 15 years, a WRX and then Outback. She refuses to use two sets of wheels so we have all season tires on it year round, usually Nokian.

They're great at accelerating and going in snow, but my FWD and RWD cars corner and stop better since they always have snow tires. So you get an uneven mix in the AWD cars w/ all seasons that make them a little unsafe imo. It's a victory for marketing over reality.

In the rain, the AWD cars are great if you want to drive 80 mph in the pouring rain. But if you slow down a bit in the rain, there's really no benefit.

It's a different story if you get into the 300 hp range, then AWD is more beneficial vs FWD.
You are right. I'm thinking on my own experience. I drive a 275whp/300wtq AWD car with Extreme Summer tires. Of course it behaves way better.
2WD cars with half that power can survive fine with the right set of tires.
 
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VarmintCong

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You are right. I'm thinking on my own experience. I drive a 275whp/300wtq AWD car with Extreme Summer tires. Of course it behaves way better.
2WD cars with half that power can survive fine with the right set of tires.
The Type R has more power than that and does fine with an LSD. It's faster than an STI in the rain, supposedly. But it requires some driver skill, if someone just mashes the throttle in the rain you're gonna get nothing but wheelspin. AWD lets people drive without any throttle management skills.

I did track days in the rain in my RWD 3 series, and drove a lot in snow. It requires skill to keep the car from exiting the track/road backwards.
 

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I read through the thread and still don't get what's the hype about LSD.
 

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I read through the thread and still don't get what's the hype about LSD.
Basically with an open differential if one drive wheel is spinning it will get all the power & the other drive wheel gets no power. If one drive wheel is on ice and the other drive wheel is on dry pavement, the wheel on ice will start spinning & the wheel on the pavement will get no power. So even though one tire is on dry pavement the car will be stuck.

An LSD will provide power to both drive wheels & therefore the car can move.
 

Gruber

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Basically with an open differential if one drive wheel is spinning it will get all the power & the other drive wheel gets no power. If one drive wheel is on ice and the other drive wheel is on dry pavement, the wheel on ice will start spinning & the wheel on the pavement will get no power. So even though one tire is on dry pavement the car will be stuck.

An LSD will provide power to both drive wheels & therefore the car can move.
So imagine you are going fast under power (maybe somewhat uphill) and your right wheel suddenly catches iced or muddy or sandy side of the road. With LSD all the torque goes now to the left wheel and suddenly pulls the car to the right, off the road. Can this be an issue?
 
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VarmintCong

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So imagine you are going fast under power (maybe somewhat uphill) and your right wheel suddenly catches iced or muddy or sandy side of the road. With LSD all the torque goes now to the left wheel and suddenly pulls the car to the right, off the road. Can this be an issue?
Have encountered that situation in AWD Subarus, there's no pulling to one side that I noticed.
 

BriteBlue

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So imagine you are going fast under power (maybe somewhat uphill) and your right wheel suddenly catches iced or muddy or sandy side of the road. With LSD all the torque goes now to the left wheel and suddenly pulls the car to the right, off the road. Can this be an issue?
I guess anything is possible. But if both wheels had power before you hit the icy patch then both wheels should still have power when one is on the icy patch. Nothing should have changed & both wheels should just keep on going. If both tires were going 30mph they should both still be going 30mph.

Most cars nowadays have some form of traction control which does sort of the same thing. To my knowledge TC uses the brakes just like ABS and electronic stability control. IOW manufacturers want the car to control wheel spin. Consequently I don't see any downside to having a LSD other than the cost.

The Civic Owner's Manual says "The vehicle stability assist (VSA®) system helps stabilize the vehicle during cornering, and helps maintain traction while accelerating on loose or slippery road surfaces." It also says you can disable VSA and "Your vehicle will have normal braking and cornering ability, but traction control function will be less effective."

I've had several RWD performance cars with a mechanical LSD and never had issues with any of them. If anything LSD has helped me from getting stuck in crappy winter weather.

I think for an everyday car the traction control & stability control system will probably do a fine job. For a performance car you should get a LSD.
 

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