Dealership service fraud-Need advice

[Island]

Hey fellas. Need some advice from you guys. I'm pretty upset and don't know if I'm just tripping for nothing or have a legitimate issue? 2019 Civic ex hatchback with only 11K miles. I did my last oil change and noticed oil on my skid plate and found that the oil was coming from the half shaft bearing. I cleaned up the oil and scheduled an appointment today with my dealership

My service advisor was kind of an A-hole when talking to him about it and he told me that since I cleaned it up he would just have his tech look and if it's not leaking, I would have to bring it back. Of course, I took pictures of the oil but he didn't care and said they will check. He could tell I was pissed and said he would take care of me. I could tell that he wasn't happy with me from the start of our conversation though. This was at 8AM this morning. I get a call from him a little after 12 noon and he tells me it's done. So I go pick it up, and he has me sign the invoice and I drive home.

Of course I'm not an idiot and always keep my dash cam running for any service which is motion activated. So, my car sits until around 9:18, and goes up on a lift at 9:29AM. There's a little more recording for the next 20 minutes, but I get no footage of actual power tools or anything remotely related to shaft bearing replacement. My car goes off the lift in less then one hour. I see the tech use a hose nozzle and spray what I think is water into my windshield reservoir. He then takes what looks like a watering can for plants and pours I would assume is some brake fluid into the reservoir although my brake fluid I know is full because I always check it.

My question is, can a tech replace a half shaft bearing in under an hour? I'm no mechanic but I can do regular maintenance and it would seem it would take a lot longer then one hour to do this job? I'm freaking out wondering what the hell he poured into my reservoirs? About to jack my car up in the garage and see if the work was actually done? My wife wants me to call him and ask and tell him about my dash cam videos. I feel like going there and asking to speak the the manager and show him my time stamps and videos of what was or wasn't done to my car today. What would you guys do. I'll post back once I get the car up on jack stands and pull the skid plate. Can't believe I have to do this to feel reassured that I didn't get screwed!

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[shoegazer]

What does it say on the invoice?

 

[Centripetal]

I’ve changed CV joints on several Honda’s usually under an hour. Unless the lower ball-joint is being difficult. They were probably filling your transmission as fluid can leak out when you remove the CV joint or half-shaft.

 

[Arashishozen]

It can be done in under an hour, but they had to be moving.
Some fluid will leak out when removing the half shaft assembly.

I'd also recommend checking to see what the invoice said.

I'd also be careful about the dash cam recording.
In some places, it's a privacy law issue to record someone without their consent.

 

[Island]

Thanks for the replies. Invoice says Intermediate shaft was leaking and replaced. Watching my cam footage again, I guess I may have been wrong and just had an efficient and fast tech. I put the car up on jack stands yesterday and looked.

The bearing as far as I can tell, isn't leaking, but doesn't look factory new though like you would see in a factory OEM part taken out of the bag. I don't know though. I do see gouges in the back of the cv axle housing that wasn't there before, so I would assume he used some type of pry bar to remove the spline.

I'll post some pics. there is one picture of the original half shaft bearing with the dripping oil and the rest are of what I took yesterday. Thanks again fellas!

 

[sykozis]

The intermediate shaft support bearing doesn't leak oil. There's no oil in it to leak out. There is only grease. Any oil on it would have been come from something above it.

I would advise against informing the service manage of the dash cam video. In some states, that can cause legal issues for you. You're filming a secure area without consent, as well as filming the people in said secure area without their consent. Both the property owners and any person filmed could potentially bring legal action against you since they're not in a public area and were filmed without their knowledge or consent. If you can prove fraud, it would be best to consult a lawyer prior to addressing the service manager. If not, it would be in your best interest not to even make accusations. Even this thread title, since you are outright accusing them of fraud, was a bad idea...

 

[Arashishozen]

The bearing looks new to me. And the mark on the cv axle is from putting a pry bar and tapping it with a hammer to help it pop off the set ring on the half shaft.

The intermediate shaft support bearing doesn't leak oil. There's no oil in it to leak out. There is only grease. Any oil on it would have been come from something above it.

I would advise against informing the service manage of the dash cam video. In some states, that can cause legal issues for you. You're filming a secure area without consent, as well as filming the people in said secure area without their consent. Both the property owners and any person filmed could potentially bring legal action against you since they're not in a public area and were filmed without their knowledge or consent. If you can prove fraud, it would be best to consult a lawyer prior to addressing the service manager. If not, it would be in your best interest not to even make accusations. Even this thread title, since you are outright accusing them of fraud, was a bad idea...

The half shaft bearings do leak on these cars. It's actually really common, and I see allot of them, including my own car. And the first picture is 100% that bearing leaking

 

[sykozis]

So, a bearing that contains no oil.....leaks oil.... Maybe I'll go back to working on Fords. At least they only leak oil from places that contain oil.....

My intermediate support bearing has 32K miles on it and looks exactly like that.

 

[Arashishozen]

So, a bearing that contains no oil.....leaks oil.... Maybe I'll go back to working on Fords. At least they only leak oil from places that contain oil.....

My intermediate support bearing has 32K miles on it and looks exactly like that.

I'm not sure what exactly is "in" the bearing,as it'd supposed to be sealed. And there's no option to repack it like you could do for the old style wheel bearings, like my 88 Bronco had.
But they do leak. It's fairly common, a quick search on here will show that.

There's not anything above it that would only leak onto the bottom the half shaft bearing, and nothing else.

Mine had 19k miles on it, when it was replaced due to leaking.y wife's EX Hatch has 45k miles and so far no leak.

 

[sykozis]

The bearing has grease it in

 

[DRUSA]

Hey fellas. Need some advice from you guys. I'm pretty upset and don't know if I'm just tripping for nothing or have a legitimate issue? 2019 Civic ex hatchback with only 11K miles. I did my last oil change and noticed oil on my skid plate and found that the oil was coming from the half shaft bearing. I cleaned up the oil (In the future, don't do this, leave the car in the condition of the complaint so we can verify it) and scheduled an appointment today with my dealership

My service advisor was kind of an A-hole (most are lol) when talking to him about it and he told me that since I cleaned it up he would just have his tech look and if it's not leaking, I would have to bring it back. (Standard procedure here, we need to verify the complaint, if you cleaned it we can't tell where the leak is coming from if there is no leak) Of course, I took pictures of the oil but he didn't care and said they will check. (Pictures are always helpful, but with oil leaks they leak down, need to verify in person, it could be a valve cover gasket leak from higher up on the engine leaking down) He could tell I was pissed and said he would take care of me. I could tell that he wasn't happy with me from the start of our conversation though. This was at 8AM this morning. I get a call from him a little after 12 noon and he tells me it's done. So I go pick it up, and he has me sign the invoice and I drive home.

Of course I'm not an idiot and always keep my dash cam running for any service which is motion activated. So, my car sits until around 9:18, and goes up on a lift at 9:29AM. There's a little more recording for the next 20 minutes, but I get no footage of actual power tools or anything remotely related to shaft bearing replacement. (This needs to be replaced under the car, if you are seeing powertools under the hood be concerned lol) My car goes off the lift in less then one hour. I see the tech use a hose nozzle and spray what I think is water into my windshield reservoir. He then takes what looks like a watering can for plants and pours I would assume is some brake fluid into the reservoir although my brake fluid I know is full because I always check it. (he topped off fluids, nice of him, Honda doesn't pay for that)

My question is, can a tech replace a half shaft bearing in under an hour? (Yes, its three bolts and then the bolts for the shaft, six bolts total, warranty time is 0.8hr to replace) I'm no mechanic but I can do regular maintenance and it would seem it would take a lot longer then one hour to do this job? (people who do it for a living tend to be faster than amateurs hehe) I'm freaking out wondering what the hell he poured into my reservoirs? (nothing that would have harmed the car, probably topping off the coolant reservoir) About to jack my car up in the garage and see if the work was actually done? My wife wants me to call him and ask and tell him about my dash cam videos. I feel like going there and asking to speak the the manager and show him my time stamps and videos of what was or wasn't done to my car today. (yeah, totally don't do this lol. What most have stated, you really can't be recording us depending on the state. If you start implying that work is done too fast, they will take LONGER on your car to make you think it was done better for some reason) What would you guys do. I'll post back once I get the car up on jack stands and pull the skid plate. Can't believe I have to do this to feel reassured that I didn't get screwed!

You gotta calm down with some of this stuff, your service department is going to hate you lol. Laid back customers get way more stuff done from what I've seen. Really rude customers just get told to leave, the dealers aren't obligated to fix your car, I've seen a couple of managers tell customers to pound sand and go to the next dealership 1hr drive away.

 

[Island]

The bearing has grease it in

The bearing is sealed from the factory with grease. Non-serviceable. Wither factory defect or failure, the bearing heats up when driving and gets so hot the the grease gets liquified and then is slung out and gets onto parts of the vehicle so it is visible. My skid plate had a grease puddle and there was grease leaking down onto the oil drain pan.

Yes, I know about private versus public recording, but the camera is in my vehicle and gives me peace of mind. Case in point, we all know about the AC condenser issue with all these new Honda's failing. I had mine go out and replaced by this same dealership 6 months ago.

My dash cam recorded my advisor talking and laughing with the tech asking the tech if he knows what's going on with my vehicle. The tech says "I didn't diagnose it, but I guess the compressor is leaking." I hear my advisor say "yeah, and I guess the blower motor stopped working."

I hear the tech then say, I'm just gonna swap the compressor out and use the same clutch and coil-Fu*k it." They both laugh and the advisor says "Yeah one of those parts is on back order anyways, so just do whatever, but just make sure your notes look right in case it comes back in."

I have proof now if my AC ever fails again. Right or wrong, I'm a paying customer and am smart and think ahead and take precautions so I don't get screwed. It is what it is, and such is life....

 

[_silvy]

I have proof now if my AC ever fails again. Right or wrong, I'm a paying customer and am smart and think ahead and take precautions so I don't get screwed. It is what it is, and such is life....

Sounds more like you have a good case of paranoia

 

[Arashishozen]

The bearing is sealed from the factory with grease. Non-serviceable. Wither factory defect or failure, the bearing heats up when driving and gets so hot the the grease gets liquified and then is slung out and gets onto parts of the vehicle so it is visible. My skid plate had a grease puddle and there was grease leaking down onto the oil drain pan.

Yes, I know about private versus public recording, but the camera is in my vehicle and gives me peace of mind. Case in point, we all know about the AC condenser issue with all these new Honda's failing. I had mine go out and replaced by this same dealership 6 months ago.

My dash cam recorded my advisor talking and laughing with the tech asking the tech if he knows what's going on with my vehicle. The tech says "I didn't diagnose it, but I guess the compressor is leaking." I hear my advisor say "yeah, and I guess the blower motor stopped working."

I hear the tech then say, I'm just gonna swap the compressor out and use the same clutch and coil-Fu*k it." They both laugh and the advisor says "Yeah one of those parts is on back order anyways, so just do whatever, but just make sure your notes look right in case it comes back in."

I have proof now if my AC ever fails again. Right or wrong, I'm a paying customer and am smart and think ahead and take precautions so I don't get screwed. It is what it is, and such is life....

Just for reference, when replacing compressors under warranty, Honda tells us to use the old clutch and coil. Since the issue is the compressor leaking.

 

[TriangleHeat]

I see the tech use a hose nozzle and spray what I think is water into my windshield reservoir. He then takes what looks like a watering can for plants and pours I would assume is some brake fluid into the reservoir although my brake fluid I know is full because I always check it.

It's unclear which fluids went into what based on the way you worded this. I don't think it's uncommon to have a hose for fluids, they have oil in 55 gallon drums too. Some Honda dealerships use two-part washer fluids: water in, then throw in a tablet that dissolves inside the reservoir or pour in the methanol concentrate to make the complete washer fluid solution. Honda sells both the tablets and the concentrate in bottle form, the former is usually for summer mixture and the latter allows you to vary for both summer and winter based on directions on the bottle. If you're saying they put brake fluid into your windshield washer reservoir, what makes you think that? That would be easy to spot. If you're saying they put it into your brake fluid reservoir instead, you said that one is full, it's physically impossible to put something in without overflowing and you'd know if it wasn't brake fluid that went in anyway.

From what I read in your post:
1. A dealership is unlikely to commit sabotage through easily discovered means like fluid reservoirs, you'd know it when you used your windshield washer fluid or if your brake system failed. They wouldn't bother either, they're not hurting for work and not going to risk liability, death and investigations. If a customer went on i-team news and showed them the brake fluid in the windshield washer fluid, that dealership is going to be in for a hard time for virtually no gain on their part. They could do easier, harder things to diagnose, like cutting wires.
2. The A/C comment you overheard: I find nothing wrong with that. The shaft seal is leaking, that requires replacement of the compressor body since it's impractical to have a shop split the case apart and replace just that seal, otherwise Honda would have opted to just have a few cheap seals replaced at much lower cost to them. The clutch plate, coil and pulley are working properly and they're technically separate, they have separate part numbers. If they decide to replace the whole assembly to cut costs, that's a bonus.

If the A/C thing was the basis of your suspicion from the jump I think you need to rethink that, they didn't do anything wrong. If they were sent a replacement compressor without a clutch plate, coil and pulley and they have your compressor out on a bench, all they have to do is remove one bolt, two snap rings and move those components over, five minutes with proper snap ring pliers, it's sequential (one part goes on top of another) and is not technically complex like replacing a timing chain where you need to keep track of different things in parallel. I fully expect Honda to send over bare compressors too, to save money on an expensive recall and those parts are completely fine, why throw those parts in the recycling bin?

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