Creating a "Super Stiff Steering Build". What do I need?

[davemarco]

Howdy! Now that my power bolts on are complete, I'm looking to overhaul my suspension. In particular, I've gotten so used to the stock steering feel in +R that I've started to notice the slight delay in response time between turning the wheel and seeing the car move. I've also noticed a slight looseness in the steering wheel at dead center. It's not that I have a dead zone, it's more like I can jiggle the steering a couple of degrees in either direction before hitting the point where it "bites" and moves the car.

My goals are:

- Eliminate any jiggle in the steering wheel at dead center. If I move the steering wheel one degree, I want the car to move.

- Increase the overall stiffness of the steering wheel throughout the entire range of motion. +R is stiff, but I want stiffer. I wish that we could flash the steering module for this but we can't, so I'll have to rely on suspension mods.

- Improve turn-in responsiveness. Not sure if this is the same thing as my first bullet, but I would like my steering to be as 1:1 as possible.

So far, I'm considering the following:

- Rigid collars
- Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit or RV6 Spherical Bushings (not sure which yet)

What other mods would you guys recommend to greatly increase my steering effort and responsiveness? Springs? Specific tires? Lower Ball Joint? I'm open to all ideas, no matter how insane!

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[fatherpain]

Are you still on 20’s?

My steering seemed to improve when moved down to 18’s with hpbyhermann’s recommendation of Bridgestone RE71Rs.

Car feels like it’s on rails now.

 

[RedGiant217]

"The Type R's steering ratio varies between 14.9:1 on-center and 11.7:1 at full lock, with 2.11 turns lock-to-lock."
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a10018739/2017-honda-civic-type-r-first-drive/

I think you might want to set more realistic goals....

 

[tinyman392]

Howdy! Now that my power bolts on are complete, I'm looking to overhaul my suspension. In particular, I've gotten so used to the stock steering feel in +R that I've started to notice the slight delay in response time between turning the wheel and seeing the car move. I've also noticed a slight looseness in the steering wheel at dead center. It's not that I have a dead zone, it's more like I can jiggle the steering a couple of degrees in either direction before hitting the point where it "bites" and moves the car.

My goals are:

- Eliminate any jiggle in the steering wheel at dead center. If I move the steering wheel one degree, I want the car to move.

- Increase the overall stiffness of the steering wheel throughout the entire range of motion. +R is stiff, but I want stiffer. I wish that we could flash the steering module for this but we can't, so I'll have to rely on suspension mods.

- Improve turn-in responsiveness. Not sure if this is the same thing as my first bullet, but I would like my steering to be as 1:1 as possible.

So far, I'm considering the following:

- Rigid collars
- Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit or RV6 Spherical Bushings (not sure which yet)

What other mods would you guys recommend to greatly increase my steering effort and responsiveness? Springs? Specific tires? Lower Ball Joint? I'm open to all ideas, no matter how insane!

One thing I noticed after swapping out my steering wheel today was that the heavier steering wheel (5lbs vs 2.5lbs stock) made the steering a lot less stiff, it was more smooth than anything. I'd imaging if it were possible to get a steering wheel that was lighter than 2.5lbs, it would stiffen it up quite a bit. Though you may notice that dead space/jiggle more as the wheel is lighter and it'll take less effort to make it jiggle. Just a thought.

A wheel with a smaller diameter would also make it stiffer as well since it gives you less leverage.

 

[davemarco]

One thing I noticed after swapping out my steering wheel today was that the heavier steering wheel (5lbs vs 2.5lbs stock) made the steering a lot less stiff, it was more smooth than anything. I'd imaging if it were possible to get a steering wheel that was lighter than 2.5lbs, it would stiffen it up quite a bit. Though you may notice that dead space/jiggle more as the wheel is lighter and it'll take less effort to make it jiggle. Just a thought.

A wheel with a smaller diameter would also make it stiffer as well since it gives you less leverage.

Interesting idea, I'll look into that. Does your steering wheel also have a tiny bit of jiggle at dead center (even in +R)?

I've also noticed more and more that the variable power steering assist below 10 mph has the same loose feeling across all steering modes (from comfort to +R), only stiffening once I begin to pick up speed. It bugs the crap out of me.

 

[tinyman392]

Interesting idea, I'll look into that. Does your steering wheel also have a tiny bit of jiggle at dead center (even in +R)? I've also noticed more and more that the variable power steering assist below 10 mph has the same loose feeling across all steering modes (from comfort to +R). It bugs the crap out of me.

It does have a little play in the center, I personally consider it a small/tiny dead zone.

 

[davemarco]

It does have a little play in the center, I personally consider it a small/tiny dead zone.

I thought that I felt mine growing a bit from when it was new as well. I'm hoping that the stiff bushings from either the Whiteline ALK or the RV6 kit will make it go away.

 

[Thusee]

Have a look at your inner tie rods. One of my sources at Honda informed me that the inner rods go bad on 10th gens. When it goes bad you'll have more play.

You could do a heavier/stickier tire compound

Upgraded sway bars

 

[samji]

Are you still on 20’s?

My steering seemed to improve when moved down to 18’s with hpbyhermann’s recommendation of Bridgestone RE71Rs.

Car feels like it’s on rails now.

I've been told sizing down and getting fatter tires would affect turn in sharpness which I presume would make the steering feel less direct and with a wider deadzone. Interesting yours got better as your downsized. Did you downsize to the same tire specs? (245/30/18)

 

[TypeSiR]

Have a custom alignment and make sure caster is maxed out at +8.

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/how-does-caster-affect-driving

 

[fatherpain]

I followed hpbyhermann’s excellent tire suggestion:

Bridgestone Potenza RE71R 265-35-18

Huge upgrade over the stock 20’s, albeit the continentals has maybe 40% left on them. That said, the new wheels and tires feel much better than I remember the car when brand new.

Just be sure to verify brake line clearance when sizing down to a smaller wheel to avoid a catastrophe.

I've been told sizing down and getting fatter tires would affect turn in sharpness which I presume would make the steering feel less direct and with a wider deadzone. Interesting yours got better as your downsized. Did you downsize to the same tire specs? (245/30/18)

 

[davemarco]

Have a custom alignment and make sure caster is maxed out at +8.

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/how-does-caster-affect-driving

I was under the impression that caster adjustments are not possible on our car? Apparently the white line anti lift kit does increase positive caster by around 0.7 though.

 

[davemarco]

I'm also looking into upgrading my sway bars as well. That said, I'm not the kind of driver that desires increased rotation, so I'd want to make sure that if I went with the white line front and rear sway bars, that is not going to affect my neutral set up.

 

[TypeSiR]

I'm also looking into upgrading my sway bars as well. That said, I'm not the kind of driver that desires increased rotation, so I'd want to make sure that if I went with the white line front and rear sway bars, that is not going to affect my neutral set up.

A performance alignment shop should be able to get to close to +8 even though it's "officially" not adjustable. It just takes time (cost). I'm not talking about the typical tire shop that does "factory spec" alignment on the side. Preferably one that's familiar with the CTR or race/track cars.

Factory specs:

https://www.civicx.com/threads/fk8-wheel-alignment-spec.21004/#post-353883

 

[davemarco]

A performance alignment shop should be able to get to close to +8 even though it's "officially" not adjustable. It just takes time (cost). I'm not talking about the typical tire shop that does "factory spec" alignment on the side. Preferably one that's familiar with the CTR or race/track cars.

Factory specs:

https://www.civicx.com/threads/fk8-wheel-alignment-spec.21004/#post-353883

Interesting. What exactly are they adjusting to get more caster? The only thing that I can think of would be the strut towers.

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