Confirmed (Ongoing) List Of si's 1.5t/6MT differences

[ikbenben]

L15B7 tech movie. Some difference explained between the normal 1.5T and the one of the Si.

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[NorthernEX-T]

The 99-00 in Pepsi Blue was a great little car. I'd still rock one in 2017

The thing I like most about the 06-11 was the K20. Great motor

Nothing better than a K, in light chassis last summer was fun, I ran a Bentley Continental GT worth 200k, he was rattled!

 

[dawsonj87]

Nothing better than a K, in light chassis last summer was fun, I ran a Bentley Continental GT worth 200k, he was rattled!

That's absolutely beautiful. Seems like a really clean engine swap as well.

 

[NorthernEX-T]

That's absolutely beautiful. Seems like a really clean engine swap as well.

Thanks, she was a full bolt on k20z1. Tsx /z3 cams, skunk2 intake street mani, ktuned header, 2.5" straight pipe to a vibrant muffler. It also had a type R trans, it was wild,, made 250whp by Joe at Altech preformance in Toronto. Miss it, I hope the CTR might pull almost as well as that car did..

 

[dawsonj87]

Thanks, she was a full bolt on k20z1. Tsx /z3 cams, skunk2 intake street mani, ktuned header, 2.5" straight pipe to a vibrant muffler. It also had a type R trans, it was wild,, made 250whp by Joe at Altech preformance in Toronto. Miss it, I hope the CTR might pull almost as well as that car did..

Jesus. That's a great amount of power for something that light. How's your experience with skunk2 products? In my searches for parts they always come up and I'm yet to try them out. Also, what tires do you run?

 

[sev1]

Have you checked the steering parts? I believe the documents state that the Si has different driving modes and steering is affected as part of the driving mode changes. Additionally there were some details about a different system all together. This is the kind of stuff that make me think the Si will be a winner.

It seems like Honda really considered driving experience and not just peak power. I'm sure the Marketing guys had a fit over it though. Even on this site of Honda enthusiasts, all you hear is complaints about the power. Meanwhile, all of the chassis and transmission improvements are dismissed. Things like LSD (Sounds like a quaife type ATB), adjustable suspension, thicker roll bars, strut tower brace, quicker steering, bigger brakes and CTR upper control arms are the kind of stuff that cost a lot in parts and labor. Not only that are a pain to remove for resale. Meanwhile, you get upgraded turbo and internals so all you need is a tune and you have more power. I feel like this is really going to be a great platform. Am I missing something here?

 

[zroger73]

Have you checked the steering parts? I believe the documents state that the Si has different driving modes and steering is affected as part of the driving mode changes.

The Si has a "SPORT" button that replaces the "ECON" button on non-Si models.

On non-Si models, turning ECON on adjusts throttle mapping so it takes more physical pedal movement to open the throttle blade to encourage smoother and more fuel-efficient driving which makes the car "feel" less responsive (wide-open throttle is not affected).

On Si models, turning SPORT on adjusts throttle mapping so it takes less physical pedal movement to open the throttle blade, which makes the car "feel" more responsive. It also reduces the amount of assist provided by the electric power steering system making the steering more firm and improving feedback. The third thing it does is energize a solenoid valve in each damper resulting in more resistance to fluid flow which firms up the suspension.

 

[sev1]

The Si has a "SPORT" button that replaces the "ECON" button on non-Si models.

On non-Si models, turning ECON on reduces throttle mapping so it takes more physical pedal movement to open the throttle blade to encourage smoother and more fuel-efficient driving which makes the car "feel" less responsive (wide-open throttle is not affected).

On Si models, turning SPORT on increases throttle mapping so it takes less physical pedal movement to open the throttle blade, which makes the car "feel" more responsive. It also reduces the amount of assist provided by the electric power steering system making the steering more firm and improving feedback. The third thing it does is energize a solenoid valve in each damper resulting in more resistance to fluid flow which firms up the suspension.

Thanks. But what is the "variable ratio" steering that keeps getting quoted?

 

[NorthernEX-T]

Jesus. That's a great amount of power for something that light. How's your experience with skunk2 products? In my searches for parts they always come up and I'm yet to try them out. Also, what tires do you run?

Skunk2 is fine. No issues. I personally like Dunlop tires. Fusion makes good cheaper tires as does General imo.

 

[zroger73]

Thanks. But what is the "variable ratio" steering that keeps getting quoted?

Variable ratio steering is similar to standard rack-and-pinion steering, except the spacing of the teeth varies along the length of the rack. By having closely-spaced teeth in the center of the rack and widely-spaced teeth towards the outside of the rack, you can have both precise, easy, on-to-near-center steering feel and fewer turns lock-to-lock. It's been around for over 40 years.

 

[dawsonj87]

The Si has a "SPORT" button that replaces the "ECON" button on non-Si models.

On non-Si models, turning ECON on reduces throttle mapping so it takes more physical pedal movement to open the throttle blade to encourage smoother and more fuel-efficient driving which makes the car "feel" less responsive (wide-open throttle is not affected).

On Si models, turning SPORT on increases throttle mapping so it takes less physical pedal movement to open the throttle blade, which makes the car "feel" more responsive. It also reduces the amount of assist provided by the electric power steering system making the steering more firm and improving feedback. The third thing it does is energize a solenoid valve in each damper resulting in more resistance to fluid flow which firms up the suspension.

Are you sure about the electric power steering providing less assist in sport mode? I'd be overjoyed-- my father's Buick Regal GS just stiffens the steering in the GS mode and it feels even more fake than the normal and Sport modes.

 

[sev1]

Variable ratio steering is similar to standard rack-and-pinion steering, except the spacing of the teeth varies along the length of the rack. By having closely-spaced teeth in the center of the rack and widely-spaced teeth towards the outside of the rack, you can have both precise, easy, on-to-near-center steering feel and fewer turns lock-to-lock. It's been around for over 40 years.

Got it. I went back and looked through the press release for the 10th Gen Civic and the Si and Type R. It appears they all call out variable ratio steering. In the Type R it says it's retuned. i don't see anything specific about changing the ratio being different.

 

[zroger73]

Are you sure about the electric power steering providing less assist in sport mode? I'd be overjoyed-- my father's Buick Regal GS just stiffens the steering in the GS mode and it feels even more fake than the normal and Sport modes.

If you're referring to the Buick Regal GS from 1997 to 2004, it used a system called MagnaSteer which was basically an electromagnet wrapped about the steering shaft. It was used in addition the hydraulic power steering system and could provide either additional assist or resistance to steering input depending on the speed of the vehicle. At low speeds, it helped to turn the steering wheel. At high speeds, it provided a resistance to steering effort. Since this resistance was provided by MagnaSteer instead of road forces and vehicle geometry, it felt...fake. Given the demographic of most Buick buyers, they were unlikely to know or detect the difference. DISCLAIMER: I bought a brand new Buick when I was 26.

When electric power steering systems came along, they opened up a whole new world of driving features that could be enabled just by changing the software. Instead of "artificially increasing road feel" by resisting steering input, they simply reduce the amount of assistance provided to increase road feel.

 

[dawsonj87]

If you're referring to the Buick Regal GS from 1997 to 2004, it used a system called MagnaSteer which was basically an electromagnet wrapped about the steering shaft. It was used in addition the hydraulic power steering system and could provide either additional assist or resistance to steering input depending on the speed of the vehicle. At low speeds, it helped to turn the steering wheel. At high speeds, it provided a resistance to steering effort. Since this resistance was provided by MagnaSteer instead of road forces and vehicle geometry, it felt...fake. MagnaSteer was a form of electric power steering, but it was not poweful enough on its own, so a conventional hydraulic system was used in conjunction. Given the demographic of most Buick buyers, they were unlikely to know or detect the difference. DISCLAIMER: I bought a brand new Buick when I was 26.

When electric power steering systems came along, they opened up a whole new world of driving features that could be enabled just by changing the software. Instead of "artificially increasing road feel" by resisting steering input, they simply reduce the amount of assistance provided to increase road feel.

Exactly. My father's is a 2012, and as soon as he got it, he commented how typical of GM the overboosted power steering was. All the times I've driven it, I notice a few things I cannot stand, namely the absolutely awful 2nd gear synchro which makes anything but granny shifting impossible, the clutch is dead and very assisted, the electronic throttle, and the electric power steering in GS mode. After about 2 o'clock, the electric power steering stiffens up (but does not reduce assistance, it basically adds fake resistance) and it feels absolutely horrid. I also noticed this at Bondurant when I drove a 2015 Camaro SS on track for a week. I barely had any road feel, albeit that was still a fantastic time. The most raw experience I've ever felt was in a 90s Miata I test drove. I know it's in a totally different caliber of car, but the steering feel was immaculate. More and more cars I drive now feel unbelievably cushioned and fake behind the wheel, and if the Si really does just reduce power assist in Sport mode, I'll be quite pleased, because that's a true enthusiast move by Honda.

 

[zroger73]

The most raw experience I've ever felt was in a 90s Miata I test drove.

Of the dozens of vehicles I've owned, I've had two without power steering: One was a '71 Ford pickup. It was almost impossible to drive without having to visit the chiropractor the next day. The other was an '84 Fiero. Since the engine was in the rear, there wasn't much weight over the front wheels. The steering feedback was good (for the time).

Speaking of the worst shifting, that award would go to a '96 Ford Ranger I had. If you tried to change gears in less than a second, it would rebel fiercely! If you got mad and forced it, it'd just grind back at you. HORRIBLE transmission - even for a cheap, under-powered domestic pickup.

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