At what point should I be worried about 2nd gear grind, if ever?

[chadwicke619]

The title pretty much sums up my question. Every now and then I'll try and launch the car really hard, and sometimes I'll end up grinding my shift from 1 > 2. I would guess that in the last 2 years of ownership - roughly 7K miles (I work from home) - I've probably ended up grinding the shift from 1 > 2 probably about half a dozen times. Maybe a few more. It's never shown any signs of wear, and it doesn't drive any differently, but it still makes me cringe every time it happens.

I guess my question is... should I be concerned? Is a little grind every now and then more or less insignificant? Or should I take it more seriously? Generally speaking, I don't launch the car, and I granny out of 1st (as I imagine many of us do in the CTR); however, on the rare occasions that I do grind it, I just kind of grimace, shrug my shoulders, and move on. I know people talk about changing transmission fluid, using a magnet to check for shavings, etc., but realistically, is this something I should be worried about? The potential damage caused from a grinding event, that is?

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[Sneakingfart]

Yea, you should be worried. Grinding at high RPM causes significant wear on the gear teeth, and in a synchromesh transmission, they are short. Eventually, you will start kicking out of gear. You would be well advised to learn how to make sure this doesn't happen.

I attached a photo of one of my old, semi synchromesh transmission that I rebuilt. It's not honda and it didn't break from grinding. Circled in yellow are the teeth of the 4th gear. Red is the hub that you move with the gear shift lever to slide it to engage the gear. And in between is the brass synchro ring. Blue is the non synchromesh part. Short teeth is 2nd gear, big gear is the one that slides with the gear shift lever. No synchro.

 

[chadwicke619]

I get that grinding metal on metal is bad and “eventually” something will happen, but when? I mean, if it will take 50 grinding events before I start losing the ability to remain in 2nd, I’m not as worried. If someone on this forum tells me they started kicking out of gear after less than 10 grinds and needed a rebuild, I would probably take it to a tranny place pretty soon. I guess I just figured that everyone has encountered this, and everyone knows that this is a thing, so I figured we would collectively have a pretty good sense of when it becomes an immediate issue, if ever, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, I appreciate your feedback, and it definitely concerns me every time it happens - I want to be very clear there. Like I said in my original, I go out of my way to make sure it doesn't happen (most of the time). That said, I don't immediately consider taking it to a tranny shop. Should I? That is basically what I am curious about. What should my level of concern look like? Is this a situation where you just wait until problems pop up?

 

[xXoVrKiLLXx]

I get that grinding metal on metal is bad and “eventually” something will happen, but when? I mean, if it will take 50 grinding events before I start losing the ability to remain in 2nd, I’m not as worried. If someone on this forum tells me they started kicking out of gear after less than 10 grinds and needed a rebuild, I would probably take it to a tranny place pretty soon. I guess I just figured that everyone has encountered this, and everyone knows that this is a thing, so I figured we would collectively have a pretty good sense of when it becomes an immediate issue, if ever, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, I appreciate your feedback, and it definitely concerns me every time it happens - I want to be very clear there. Like I said in my original, I go out of my way to make sure it doesn't happen (most of the time). That said, I don't immediately consider taking it to a tranny shop. Should I? That is basically what I am curious about. What should my level of concern look like? Is this a situation where you just wait until problems pop up?

Happened a hand full of times on my 19 as well (bought 3'ish years ago with 14k on the odo and at 55/56'ish k now). I adjusted clutch pedal travel (freeplay), and added a perrin shifter cable bushing when it happend at first and hasnt happened but a few times since, only when Im at high rpm in first and shifting. Car has never been launched nor do I bang gears. I have just adjusted my driving habits and its not really been an issue. Sucks but it is what it is.

 

[Sneakingfart]

I get that grinding metal on metal is bad and “eventually” something will happen, but when? I mean, if it will take 50 grinding events before I start losing the ability to remain in 2nd, I’m not as worried. If someone on this forum tells me they started kicking out of gear after less than 10 grinds and needed a rebuild, I would probably take it to a tranny place pretty soon. I guess I just figured that everyone has encountered this, and everyone knows that this is a thing, so I figured we would collectively have a pretty good sense of when it becomes an immediate issue, if ever, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, I appreciate your feedback, and it definitely concerns me every time it happens - I want to be very clear there. Like I said in my original, I go out of my way to make sure it doesn't happen (most of the time). That said, I don't immediately consider taking it to a tranny shop. Should I? That is basically what I am curious about. What should my level of concern look like? Is this a situation where you just wait until problems pop up?

If you are asking whether you'll at some point get to the stage where one more grind will be the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak, then no, that's unlikely. You're not likely to break teeth. And I don't think anyone can give you a number after which you'll have problems. These gears are hard.

Your level of concern should be that every time you grind, you're causing wear. Eventually you'll wear beyond the point of no return, and require a rebuild. While it's theoretically possible that you break a tooth, it is extremely unlikeley. So your goal should be to not grind. This is an issue with these transmissions, and the way you avoid it is to not wind it out to redline in first gear, and shift a hair slower to 2nd, to allow the synchro time to work.

But don't take it to a shop, and don't worry about the times it already happened. If you're not falling out of gear, you're good. Just know that if it keeps happening, eventually you will.

 

[chadwicke619]

If you are asking whether you'll at some point get to the stage where one more grind will be the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak, then no, that's unlikely. You're not likely to break teeth. And I don't think anyone can give you a number after which you'll have problems. These gears are hard.

Your level of concern should be that every time you grind, you're causing wear. Eventually you'll wear beyond the point of no return, and require a rebuild. While it's theoretically possible that you break a tooth, it is extremely unlikeley. So your goal should be to not grind. This is an issue with these transmissions, and the way you avoid it is to not wind it out to redline in first gear, and shift a hair slower to 2nd, to allow the synchro time to work.

But don't take it to a shop, and don't worry about the times it already happened. If you're not falling out of gear, you're good. Just know that if it keeps happening, eventually you will.

100% the exact answer I was looking for. Thank you.

 

[tinyman392]

I get that grinding metal on metal is bad and “eventually” something will happen, but when? I mean, if it will take 50 grinding events before I start losing the ability to remain in 2nd, I’m not as worried. If someone on this forum tells me they started kicking out of gear after less than 10 grinds and needed a rebuild, I would probably take it to a tranny place pretty soon. I guess I just figured that everyone has encountered this, and everyone knows that this is a thing, so I figured we would collectively have a pretty good sense of when it becomes an immediate issue, if ever, you know what I mean?

So, yeah, I appreciate your feedback, and it definitely concerns me every time it happens - I want to be very clear there. Like I said in my original, I go out of my way to make sure it doesn't happen (most of the time). That said, I don't immediately consider taking it to a tranny shop. Should I? That is basically what I am curious about. What should my level of concern look like? Is this a situation where you just wait until problems pop up?

My transmission had about 100k miles on it before it got replaced under warranty. It was still functioning fine, but the grinds were really annoying. Approximately grinned once every 1500 or so miles. Doing the math that's like 60 or so grinds.

Note that my 4th gear liked to pop out when I first got the car, but as I used it that stopped entirely. The new transmission doesn't have any of the 4th gear stiffness and weirdness I had before.

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