I've upgraded to 5/30 oil...

[dblshock]

When and how will you think you are wrong?

When the UOA's pile up with clearly better numbers I'll go to the 0/20 spec, I don't see that happening especially those who take it out to 10 or 15%...they're going to be very disappointed.

Talking about engineers the guy and his boss who designed the dip stick should be publicly slapped immediately after the couple who designed the oil pans cover.

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[dblshock]

I'm expecting more cold weather but as planned I dumped the Mobil 1 5/30 and will upgrade that to Delvac 1 5/40 this afternoon, I kinda figured this would be where we wind up for ideal lubrication.

 

[Draken187]

I'm expecting more cold weather but as planned I dumped the Mobil 1 5/30 and will upgrade that to Delvac 1 5/40 this afternoon, I kinda figured this would be where we wind up for ideal lubrication.

Wow... Another upgrade? Teh fμck

 

[Draken187]

Wow... Another upgrade? Teh fμck

I see the words.. Heavy duty diesel.. A picture of a truck and escavation equipment.. Really really makes me wanna put that in my 1.5L turbo economy civic..

 

[Billy4202]

I see the words.. Heavy duty diesel.. A picture of a truck and escavation equipment.. Really really makes me wanna put that in my 1.5L turbo economy civic..

I nearly spit out my coffee

I'm expecting more cold weather but as planned I dumped the Mobil 1 5/30 and will upgrade that to Delvac 1 5/40 this afternoon, I kinda figured this would be where we wind up for ideal lubrication.

We'll be waiting for updates!

 

[RetroJR]

I see the words.. Heavy duty diesel.. A picture of a truck and escavation equipment.. Really really makes me wanna put that in my 1.5L turbo economy civic..

LOL!

I used to run this oil in my 1.9 TDI and I would get well over 50mpg. Apples to oranges I know. But I used to cringe on cold startup hearing the valvetrain before the oil properly circulated. That oil sure gets thick in cold weather on startup. 5w or not.

 

[PADave]

For those interested in real studies conducted this century:

“optimal design of the lubricant: reduction in the overall viscosity ... providing superior wear performance.”​

Clarke, Dean, et al. "DELIVERING OPTIMAL FUEL ECONOMY AND WEAR PROTECTION THROUGH LUBRICANT DESIGN." Blucher Engineering Proceedings 1.2 (2014): 429-434.

“The low ML friction is possibly attributed to its low V–P coefficient ... superior anti-scuffing behavior. Microstructural examination and chemical composition analysis were conducted on the wear scars from both the top surface and the cross section to study the wear mode”​

Mordukhovich, Gregory, et al. "A low-viscosity ionic liquid demonstrating superior lubricating performance from mixed to boundary lubrication." Wear 301.1 (2013): 740-746.

“Several studies have been conducted on the energy consumption, energy efficiency, and role of friction in passenger cars... the U.S. Department of Energy...concluded that 120 billion U.S. dollars could be saved annually by reducing friction and wear in engine and drivetrain components.”​

Holmberg, Kenneth, Peter Andersson, and Ali Erdemir. "Global energy consumption due to friction in passenger cars." Tribology International 47 (2012): 221-234.

“the aim of this study was to assess the performance of commercial low viscosity oils regarding their degradation and engine wear, since the use of LVO could imply an increase in wear rate. ...“real-world” performance of LVO in a real service fleet... Samples were taken each 3000 km. For every sample, a broad list of physical and chemical properties was measured, and especially engine wear ... Results indicate that oil performance and wear effects do not show abnormal patterns due to use of LVO.”​

Macian, Vicente, et al. Evaluation of Low Viscosity Engine Wear Effects and Oil Performance in Heavy Duty Engines Fleet Test. No. 2014-01-2797. SAE Technical Paper, 2014.

“Low viscosity engine oils (LVO) ... this work׳s aim is to test LVO in real fleet, with emphasis on engine wear and oil key performance indicators... For each sample, the elemental composition of the wear debris by ICP-AES and HTHS viscosity of the oil were measured among other properties. The results showed that, with a correct oil formulation, there is no significant difference when using LVO in terms of engine wear... No significant variation in oil consumption was detected due to LVO.”​

Macián, Vicente, et al. "Low viscosity engine oils: Study of wear effects and oil key parameters in a heavy duty engine fleet test." Tribology International 94 (2016): 240-248.

“One of the most attractive ways to tackle vehicle engine's inefficiencies is the use of Low Viscosity Engine Oils (LVEO). Results show a fuel consumption reduction in the fleet test and corresponding friction reduction ... when LVEO are used.”​

Tormos, Bernardo, et al. "Fuel Consumption and Friction Benefits of Low Viscosity Engine Oils for Heavy Duty Applications." Tribology International (2017).

“Low viscosity engine oil can improve a vehicle’s fuel economy by decreasing the friction between the engine components. Frictional torque varies with the velocity change due to different viscosity characteristics of SAE grade 5W-20, 5W-30 and 5W-40 engine oils. The viscosity for each of these grades was measured to outline the effect low viscosity engine oils have on engine friction... A decrease in engine oil seal frictional torque was confirmed when low viscosity engine oil was used. Also, the leak-free performance of the engine oil with the seal satisfied the life limit durability test criteria. Thus, low viscosity engine oil may be used to improve fuel economy by decreasing the frictional loss of the engine oil seal while having no negative impact on performance due to leak-free functioning.”​

Kim, H. G., and S. I. Jeon. "Effect on friction of engine oil seal with engine oil viscosity." International Journal of Automotive Technology 9.5 (2008): 601-606.

“passenger car engine oils using lower viscosity base oils ... used under severer conditions than passenger car engine oils. Therefore, lower volatility performance at higher temperature conditions, higher shear stability, anti-wear performance and gear pitting toughness are needed.In this study, we report the results .. high quality base oil contributed to reduce oil consumption, compared with the current 10W-30 grade motorcycle engine oil... can increase oil film thickness and also improve shear stability... engine test was conducted. The candidate oil showed better fuel saving and better effect for gear fatigue and noise prevention.”​

Watanabe, Nobuaki. Study of Lower Viscosity Motorcycle Engine Oils for Fuel Saving. No. 2010-32-0123. SAE Technical Paper, 2010.

“significant gains in fuel economy can be accomplished by reducing friction between the moving surfaces in key engine components (e.g. valvetrain, piston, crankshaft). This paper provides an overview of how specific tribological/rheological properties (e.g. viscosity, volatility, friction coefficient, film thickness, wear volume) can be considered in the design of fuel efficient crankcase engine lubricants that promote high wear resistance ... Friction and wear measurements from bench level lubrication ... are presented.”​

Phillips, Cory B., et al. Design Considerations in Formulating Gasoline Engine Lubricants for Improving Engine Fuel Economy and Wear Resistance Part I: Base Oils and Additives. No. 2007-01-4143. SAE Technical Paper, 2007.

“low viscosity grade engine oils like 0W-20 ... results indicate that Oil-10 provides the same level of protection against valve train wear”​

Sagawa, Takumaru, et al. Development of GF-5 0W-20 Fuel-Saving Engine Oil for DLC-Coated Valve Lifters. No. 2014-01-1478. SAE Technical Paper, 2014.

“6.1.2 Effect of oil viscosity on wear performanceSAE J300 CCS and Scanning Brookfield (ASTM D‐5133) viscosities of the test oils were measured...Both sets of viscosity data were plotted against the average wear rate...Both plots clearly show a trend towards lower average cylinder liner wear rates with lower measured SAE J300 CCS and Scanning Brookfield viscosities”​

A. Plomer, R. Benda, (2000) "Modern heavy duty diesel engine cold start wear study", Industrial Lubrication and Tribology, Vol. 52 Iss: 6, pp.277 - 285

 

[PADave]

I want to point out that I had no idea what I was going to find before I started researching the subject. At first I looked around on the internet and got mixed answers (albeit with strong lean toward the manufactures specifications) then when I went to the peer reviewed literature where actual controlled studies were performed and it became very clear.

 

[PADave]

I'm expecting more cold weather but as planned I dumped the Mobil 1 5/30 and will upgrade that to Delvac 1 5/40 this afternoon, I kinda figured this would be where we wind up for ideal lubrication.

If you insist on a 40wt oil you'll be better off with Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 synthetic motor because it has the API SN rating for modern gas engines. The on you picked out is API SM which among other things isn't rated for the higher temperatures that can be seen in turbo charged engines like yours. Naturally the best oil would be an API SN rated 0W-20 like your car calls for but I guess that's out of the question.

 

[dblshock]

Dave do these articles mention the new GDI/Turbo engine platforms?

 

[PADave]

Dave do these articles mention the new GDI/Turbo engine platforms?

I will look the only one that I recall specifically speaking about the Turbo's was the one on LSPI. To be honest I had thought that the higher viscosity oil would be better because I read several studies that found the most likely cause was precognition of very small oil droplets that made it past the piston rings into the combustion chamber. Basically at low rpm and high pressure the oil droplets have enough time to ignite as the piston is compressing prior to the injection of gas. If so wouldn't you think that a lower viscosity oil would be getting past the rings at a higher rated than higher viscosity oil? I would have. Now I think I understand why. I'll share my thoughts on engine oil weights for any one interested (in the opinion of one guy on the internet) and still reading. Anyway I'll take a peek, I still have access to the online library from when I attended grad school (not sure why my account hasn't been shut down?).

Oh I'll bet you find that my understanding and views are closer to yours than you think based on my postings so far.

 

[Design]

Well this thread suddenly got very interesting. I'm also interested in what else you find out.

It won't change my opinions on the subject. But it could help provide direction for those wanting to try something different (but refraining from telling others they should do the same).

 

[PADave]

Dave do these articles mention the new GDI/Turbo engine platforms?

I can't find any on that subject when turbo changes are included they are looking specifically at LSPI no mention of engine wear (is it because that's a bigger issue than wear?). The problem is that more specific criteria you include the fewer articles there are. Before I was just limiting myself to studies about engines where they actually looked at an engine and they compared lower viscosity oils to higher viscosity oils (even if it was a side finding and not the primary study). I found one article (since 2000 my cut-off) that said that the the lower viscosity oils had higher wear but it was from either 2000 or 2001 and was in an engine designed for a higher weight oil and it was not using the more modern oils (API SL vs the current SN that has specific requirement targeted at lower viscosity oils).
To solve the LSPI issue they aren't looking to change oil viscosity they are looking for additives that will decrease the ignition of the oil droplets. Sounds like it will be in the next version of the API spec presumably SO although SN is already better than SM because it requires increased temperature tolerance.

 

[dblshock]

right you'll find they've lowered the Ca and increased Mg to minimize LSPI, Mobil1 has reformulated their line, Castrol is 50% there.

 

[dblshock]

GDI/Turbo platform is a filthy process and the oil quickly becomes fouled with fuel, under those conditions the lighter viscosity grades have no where to go...then the MFG.'s have the EPA CAFE pressure to comply or pay..most builders have now backed off the 0/20 spec for this platform and even Lubrizol (additive mfg) has openly discussed the evolving challenge of lubricating it under such adversity.

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