Hondata Dyno testing of EX turbo

[Myx]

Has anyone posted A/F ratios for this yet? Just wanted to run some numbers using a TD03 flow map

Injen intake before and after. Just use the before (blue) line on bottom.

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[Design]

also interesting that the Hondata reported boost is no where near what honda is claiming, 16.5. Maybe the difference between cvt and manual?

I'm thinking it has more to do with factory tuning and ambient conditions. Time will tell...

 

[biffosaur]

So i ran some basic calcs using the dyno above aaaand....I think the stock turbo is gonna be a roadblock for 200+ whp.

Now, I was being conservative, but I think @ 18psi we could get around 185-190 whp. I don't think the stock turbo can go that high without pushing hot air based on some maps for various TD03 variants, at least not in stock form.

The good news is the BMW guys have been messing with these for a few years now, so there are many options for aftermarket compressor wheels that could help get over that 200 whp hump.

The caveat to this is I had to assume BSFC and Manifold temp...also this is in 100% stock form, so adding bolt-ons could change the VE and Temps which gives us more potential...

I'm hopeful to say the least.

 

[Slickone]

One thing to consider is these turbos go through generation changes and those BMW's are older so they could be using an older generation. Maybe the Civic's TD03 is improved.

Also I'm wondering if there are better impellers available why MHI hasn't made similar changes to theirs. Or maybe they have.

 

[Diversion]

We really just need a downpipe and tune to wake our engines up :/ Not enough aftermarket happening.. I remember when the 9th gen Civic came out, there was so much more action, but mostly because the Si came out at the same time as the non-Si models.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

We really just need a downpipe and tune to wake our engines up :/ Not enough aftermarket happening.. I remember when the 9th gen Civic came out, there was so much more action, but mostly because the Si came out at the same time as the non-Si models.

That and it was basically the same right? Did the 9th Si have the integrated exhaust manifold like the Accords?

These new ones - definitely see a downpipe and possibly a dump tube in the future. That will be great!

 

[biffosaur]

One thing to consider is these turbos go through generation changes and those BMW's are older so they could be using an older generation. Maybe the Civic's TD03 is improved.

Also I'm wondering if there are better impellers available why MHI hasn't made similar changes to theirs. Or maybe they have.

While that's true, they're all basically the same. If you have an inducer and exducer size that's identical, and you aren't using a fancy VGT, your limits will be similar. The generational improvements are often cost-related or improvements to cooling systems/ bearing tech. Basically it makes the turbos cheaper and longer lasting, but the performance won't change much.

My guess is that it's along the same lines. They designed it to meet fuel efficiency, cost, weight, etc for a non-SI civic. They don't look for all out performance. If they were designing for performance, they wouldn't be using a TD03.

 

[Design]

So i ran some basic calcs using the dyno above aaaand....I think the stock turbo is gonna be a roadblock for 200+ whp.

Now, I was being conservative, but I think @ 18psi we could get around 185-190 whp. I don't think the stock turbo can go that high without pushing hot air based on some maps for various TD03 variants, at least not in stock form.

The good news is the BMW guys have been messing with these for a few years now, so there are many options for aftermarket compressor wheels that could help get over that 200 whp hump.

The caveat to this is I had to assume BSFC and Manifold temp...also this is in 100% stock form, so adding bolt-ons could change the VE and Temps which gives us more potential...

I'm hopeful to say the least.

I agree... seems to max out at around 18-19 PSI. Some good data here about the Mitsu TD03. Different platform/mapping obviously, but good insight into the physical limits of this category sized turbo.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698246

 

[Slickone]

I agree... seems to max out at around 18-19 PSI. Some good data here about the Mitsu TD03. Different platform/mapping obviously, but good insight into the physical limits of this category sized turbo.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698246

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698246
around 18-19psi

 

[biffosaur]

 

[Slickone]

You might have seen these:
http://www.civicx.com/threads/europ...201-bhp-vs-174bhp-american-in-2016-civic.564/
http://www.civicx.com/threads/euro-civic-x-doesnt-have-a-vtec-turbo.2446/#post-37462

 

[SilverGhost]

The purpose of this post is to educate and convey a means by which to replicate our dyno testing procedure.

Realize that dynos differ in measuring power. The Dynapack dyno we use tends to be a little optimistic and reads close to what might be described as crank HP. You cannot accurately compare our figures to other dynos.

Modern engines have fairly aggressive knock control, and such the ignition timing can vary a fair bit from run to run. Turbo engines are more sensitive to temperatures than naturally aspirated engines, so you could start the day off with 180 HP with a cool intercooler and end the day off with 165 hp.

The best way to determine the changes (and not necessarily improvements) a modification makes is to test on the same dyno, same fuel, same air temps, same day.

Dyno Procedure
CVTs are difficult to dyno and this one is no exception. Here is the procedure we have found work best for the Dynapack.
- Set the Drive ratio to 4.49 (final drive times simulated 4th gear)
- Set the Dynapack to speed mode (F3)
- Set the RPM to 3000 rpm
- Gently load the car up 3000 and 50 MPH (Datalogged as 4th gear). Dynapack will hold the speed and RPM
- Increase Throttle until Plate (throttle plate) reads 70%
- Press F1 to begin the dyno pull.
- Depress the throttle smoothly to full over a 2 second period.
- Lift off at 5600 RPM.

Advantages:
- This procedure avoids "kick down" into a lower gear
- This procedure avoids shifting into 5th at around 5800 rpm.
- This procedure is repeatable

Disadvantages
- We can't give it full throttle early on in the dyno run, but we think it is enough to give full boost.

Notes
- This procedure requires a load capable dyno and obviously in our case we can datalog the gear and throttle plate position which helps. There may be better ways, but this is a great start.
- The power and boost varies a little with temperature. On some runs we saw 1-1.5 psi more boost and more power.
- Just for interest, we made a run with just 0-1psi boost. Last dyno plot comparison.
- And yes the Civic did get 56 mpg on the 50 mile trip home traveling on the LA Freeways at 65-72mph with a tailwind and a 900ft drop in altitude.
- We will dyno a MT Civic as soon as they are available

Civic 1.5 Turbo stock power and torque

Civic 1.5 Turbo stock boost

56MPG over 50 miles at 65-72 mph on the way back from the drag strip.

Pretty much all the boost removed.

Thanks for clarifying this procedure.

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