Driving style / plans for your Type R

[Dr_Drache]

More power to you Dr., but hopefully you will excuse me if I take the advice of Honda instead of your "current contacts in engine building" on the best way to preserve the performance & longevity of my Honda engine with regard to a proper break-in. I could get into more detail on this topic as well, but I get the feeling that if you won't consider the advice of a certified engineer or the direct/clear advice from Honda itself, then you are likely not going to be open to any idea other than your own, thus a waste of time & effort on my part.

Your opinion counts, no doubt. However, I believe that broadcasting an opinion on a forum that is in direct opposition to what the manufacturer recommends is teetering on the edge of misinformation.

I'm sorry if I didn't see your posted credentials of "Certified" engineer. I would love to see those credentials; which discipline of engineering? I love talking craft with people who do it, most engineers i know don't get certified - some get PE and Licensed.
but this is where we part opinions -
these ideas are not just my own. I didn't come up with them. they were formed and adopted by YEARS of personal, and global testing by hundreds of enthusiasts and other experts (engineers included). we believe this, because it works, it's been proven to work, and after YEARS of doing it both ways; I haven't see anyone come with a test with a large enough test/sample size to prove either side wrong.
I have driven many many many a mile on engines that were "broke in as you drive" - and never had a failure that can be attributed to "you broke it in wrong"; but - as stated, my sample size is too small.
I just have friends (acquaintances?) that build engines for high performance cars. both locally and on the east coast of the US. I take their advice often; because forum warriors don't have the sample size they have.

I am much more open than you want to believe - but carry on with personal judgments; it shows your character not mine.

this recommendation DID NOT come directly from engineering - we don't know what the actual recommendation is from the engineers before it was manipulated through PR and Marketing (and legal?); then posted.

if it's misinformation, please - show me what isn't right, and why, factually (not hypothetically) it's wrong.
of course the manufacturer doesn't recommend any modding of your car...

as I stated in my first post -

"this debate has gone on for a long time" - which is wonderful, without debates - NOTHING would change.

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[Evo]

Everybody here acts like they are going to keep it so long they are going to wear it out lol!

It's so important to break in the clutch the right way. You won't be happy with a messed up feeling clutch or one that doesn't last the life of the car.

 

[pie]

My Insight agrees with that. You could drive it all winter except for the few days where there are inches of standing snow on the road though.

The snowfall here hasn't been way out of hand, but there are days here and there. If it gets crazy I'll have to drive the backup car lol.

 

[Dr_Drache]

Everybody here acts like they are going to keep it so long they are going to wear it out lol!

It's so important to break in the clutch the right way. You won't be happy with a messed up feeling clutch or one that doesn't last the life of the car.

I still have my CRX - going on 17 years.

but this brings me to a SUPER IMPORTANT QUESTION,

I know the evo has them, and the SI has them, but we expect the R to have a clutch flow modifier? (the "bullet" the "pill" - etc)
I think this should be the first mod for anyone (and perhaps shift cable bushings)

 

[1320it]

Have to respond to this as it goes against everything I've ever known/heard/read/done & don't want anyone to risk their awesome new CTR. I've had several engineers confirm the best break-in for a new engine is to never rev it over 4,000rpm for the first 1,000 miles. During this period you should vary the load on the engine with some engine breaking. The main reason for this is to allow the piston rings to seat properly. You also should avoid WOT in high gears at very low revs on a turbo charged engine (i.e. Don't floor it in 5th/6th gear when cruising at low revs, down shift instead & then WOT). I'd be happy to provide a few links to YT vids with explanations from a reputable engineer, if anyone cares to see it).

Added link and this engineer has owned an STI & S2000, just FYI.

Some engines are broken in from the factory, so that video is not entirely correct. I hooned the shit out of my Mustang and it has been perfect.

 

[J35W2]

I'm sorry if I didn't see your posted credentials of "Certified" engineer. I would love to see those credentials; which discipline of engineering? I love talking craft with people who do it, most engineers i know don't get certified - some get PE and Licensed.
but this is where we part opinions -
these ideas are not just my own. I didn't come up with them. they were formed and adopted by YEARS of personal, and global testing by hundreds of enthusiasts and other experts (engineers included). we believe this, because it works, it's been proven to work, and after YEARS of doing it both ways; I haven't see anyone come with a test with a large enough test/sample size to prove either side wrong.
I have driven many many many a mile on engines that were "broke in as you drive" - and never had a failure that can be attributed to "you broke it in wrong"; but - as stated, my sample size is too small.
I just have friends (acquaintances?) that build engines for high performance cars. both locally and on the east coast of the US. I take their advice often; because forum warriors don't have the sample size they have.

I am much more open than you want to believe - but carry on with personal judgments; it shows your character not mine.

this recommendation DID NOT come directly from engineering - we don't know what the actual recommendation is from the engineers before it was manipulated through PR and Marketing (and legal?); then posted.

if it's misinformation, please - show me what isn't right, and why, factually (not hypothetically) it's wrong.
of course the manufacturer doesn't recommend any modding of your car...

as I stated in my first post -

"this debate has gone on for a long time" - which is wonderful, without debates - NOTHING would change.

The guy that was narrating the YT vid that I linked is Jason Fenske, a Mechanical Engineer with a BS from NC State University who has been a Powertrain Development Test Engineer for NACCO. I just assumed that Honda employs some mechanical engineers in the development of their engines and that the information that is published on their website is not "manipulated through PR & Marketing (and legal?)"

I am not an Engineer, thus the reason that I take my advice from people like Jason and proven engine building companies that employ professional mechanical engineers. Note that Honda builds all types of performance engines for many different markets & utilize them in most racing conditions for decades (big sample size.)

Here is the misinformation part, since you asked.
Direct quote from Honda:

Help assure your vehicle's future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles (1,000 kilometers). During this period:

• Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration.
• Avoid hard braking. New brakes need to be broken in by moderate use for the first 200 miles (300 km).

Certified Mechanical Engineer confirms this.

You not only contradict this directly, but imply that the information on Hondas website is either not accurate or has been manipulated by the PR, Marketing and/or Legal departments.

That kind of falls in the bucket of misinformation for me, but to each their own. I've heard the other idea that a hard break is better & folks say (like yourself) that you've done it this way & never had any problems. I'd ask if you have any evidence to support this theory? Honda states very clearly something quite the opposite. I've broken in all (3) of my new Hondas the way Honda recommends & never had 1 mechanical issue.

Sounds like we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Cheers!

 

[J35W2]

Some engines are broken in from the factory, so that video is not entirely correct. I hooned the shit out of my Mustang and it has been perfect.

The Acura NSX is broken-in from the factory & costs over $150,000. If some one can show me any evidence that the CTR engine is broken-in from the factory (for $35,000), then I will be more than happy to concede the point.

Pretty simple issue here; take the very clear and direct advice from the company that manufacturers the engine or from some guys on a forum that do the exact opposite & never had any problems.

Seriously, do whatever you want & flick off Honda while you're doing it. I'm not judging anybody here, just providing some information directly from Honda & a reputable Mechanical Engineer. Thought it might be helpful, but obviously not. Good luck & enjoy your CTR!!

 

[pie]

Everybody here acts like they are going to keep it so long they are going to wear it out lol!

It's so important to break in the clutch the right way. You won't be happy with a messed up feeling clutch or one that doesn't last the life of the car.

I've never explicitly broken in a clutch before.. Is there anything you have to do outside of driving normally? Lol this is why I don't buy new cars..

I'm going to try to stick to the Honda recommendation. I can see merit in both sides of the debate, but like the doc said, without a proper study (which is never going to happen), we can't come to any definitive conclusions. Who am I kidding tho? I drive like an old lady so it won't matter

 

[Evo]

I've never explicitly broken in a clutch before.. Is there anything you have to do outside of driving normally? Lol this is why I don't buy new cars..

I'm going to try to stick to the Honda recommendation. I can see merit in both sides of the debate, but like the doc said, without a proper study (which is never going to happen), we can't come to any definitive conclusions. Who am I kidding tho? I drive like an old lady so it won't matter

It needs around 300 city miles just going easy on it

 

[pie]

It needs around 300 city miles just going easy on it

No clutch dumps, no overloading it on the highway with high load/low rpm etc? Auto rev match, here we come lol.

 

[Evo]

No clutch dumps, no overloading it on the highway with high load/low rpm etc? Auto rev match, here we come lol.

You want to not rev match those city shifts to help wear it in. remember grandma's got hot soup in her lap and keep it smooothhh

 

[bobafettm]

It's still a car... and a $30k car. If it was a $130k I'd really wouldn't want to drive that in climate weather.

A Honda Civic will perform excellent in the snow. Type R or not. Just need real tires on it for that

 

[A2typeR]

I guess you guys aren't serious about winning digs from a light vs other random drivers.

I self purge before I enter my car everytime to minimize weight and increase chances against soccer moms in minivans with leadfeet.

It won't be any different once I get the Type R.

I'm also gonna rip out the backseat and strip all the doors speakers and paneling etc.

 

[bobafettm]

Just to add on the break in procedure... my little Toyota motor was on the track first weekend of ownership. 30+ track days and 38k miles with zero issues. Doesn't sound like a lot of miles but that's a ton of Dragon trips (usually two a year) and 30 or 31 (I believe I forgot to write down a OTD) track days is a lot of work on the 2ZZ.

I plan on doing the same with the K20 motor.

I won't ever do a clutch drop. Never have done a burn out in the Lotus and never will in the CTR. I don't do straight line runs from a stop... but I plan on having the CTR out at a OTD or local event asap! Gotta burn through those garbage stock brake pads and get the carbotech X10/12 setup... waaaait... just googled it and FK2 never had carbotech pads made for it?!? Fml. I'm sure once it comes to the land of Freedom fries we will get proper pads made for those brembos!

 

[Snoopyslr]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm pretty sure Honda does not break in their engines before they sell them. Not on the mass produced Civic at least.

I'm not sure who else here has had the opportunity to visit an engine plant, but I have. For the mass produced GM motors, there isn't a room where they are running all the engines for 24 hours before they send them out to install in vehicles. The costs of doing that would be astronomical and completely unnecessary.

When I built the motor for my old Talon, I did a 1000 mile break in, probably overkill but it was quite an investment. 0-100 nothing over 3k, 100-500 nothing over 5k, 500-1000 no limit on rpms but still no WOT. It was the hardest thing I've ever done lol. $10k worth of parts and machining, 450+ hp, and I couldn't use it!

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