Yet anther set of tires ruined at the track...

[Krazychowmein]

Ouch.

Even with 44 PSI hot, way too much rollover. That is what is killing these tires.

You will need to start marking them and checking rollover after each session and adjust accordingly.

You will find that you have to run so much PSI that grip and compliance (handling) are sacrificed to keep the shoulder from disintegrating.

Q: How much negative camber do you have up front?

Wider, taller 18's seem like the only realistic solution for heavy track duty.

-1.5 in the front.

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[Z3papa]

Matches my experience, but I got 8 trackdays and 10k miles out of these MP4S tyres, only a couple of really brutal tracks in those 8.

Putting on my flame suit here but......did you ever mark the tires, inspect them between sessions, and consider that either A) they needed to be rotated constantly and B) there is something about either the pressures, the tire capabilities or my driving style which is causing significant wear on the shoulders. Seeing the pictures where there is clearly a ton of wear on the shoulder into the sidewall and the comments about contacting Tirerack or the manufacturers makes me chuckle a bit. I'll confess there are times on tracks or in autocross events where upon self-critique I simply acknowledge I drove poorly by trying to exact a better time driving the track or course the same wrong way every time. I call this trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. These tire wear pictures remind me of that. One of the reasons why I rarely tracked my last car (M3) was I knew I'd roast the outside edge of the fronts as I only had -1.7 up front. This may well be the same fate for the CTR. It seems pretty clear more camber, a wider wheel and optimum tire will be needed, or a lot of wheel swaps front to back during a track day may be needed to even out this wear.

 

[Jwolf]

Putting on my flame suit here but......did you ever mark the tires, inspect them between sessions, and consider that either A) they needed to be rotated constantly and B) there is something about either the pressures, the tire capabilities or my driving style which is causing significant wear on the shoulders. Seeing the pictures where there is clearly a ton of wear on the shoulder into the sidewall and the comments about contacting Tirerack or the manufacturers makes me chuckle a bit. I'll confess there are times on tracks or in autocross events where upon self-critique I simply acknowledge I drove poorly by trying to exact a better time driving the track or course the same wrong way every time. I call this trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. These tire wear pictures remind me of that. One of the reasons why I rarely tracked my last car (M3) was I knew I'd roast the outside edge of the fronts as I only had -1.7 up front. This may well be the same fate for the CTR. It seems pretty clear more camber, a wider wheel and optimum tire will be needed, or a lot of wheel swaps front to back during a track day may be needed to even out this wear.

This is called insanity, many people practice this, myself included.

 

[Gansan]

In one racing book I read many years ago, I read a discussion on why driving style seems to cause different tire wear, even between drivers who run the same times. This graph illustrates the principle.

in case it’s not clear, you can drive with a very large slip angle and feel like you are just pounding out those laps. However with a gentler touch you can do the same laps but save on tire wear and reduce tire fade. That’s something that we can’t judge because we are not sitting in each other’s cars, but it’s good to be aware of this.

On a slightly different tangent, in my previous experience with tracking an Integra, there was nowhere near as much shoulder wear even with stock alignment. I guess this is one of the nice things about double wishbones and the camber gain they have.

 

[remc86007]

I didn't know just how quick street tires could wear till I got my CTR. Before it, I owned a 4 Cyl 6th gen Accord followed by a CR-Z. With those cars, even with regular auto-crossing I would get years out of tires. With the CTR, my wife and I did one track day (two entrants, one car) at a low-speed, tight track, and in that one outing wasted 80% of the tread on the pair of stock conti's I had up front. Thankfully I bought that pair of tires used, but it made up my mind that I'm not tracking again till I get 18s and some better track tires.

It really is incredible to think about the sheer amount of constant forces the front tires on our CTRs endure: 300+ HP through the front wheels, crazy good mechanical grip, and very strong brakes all throwing 3100lbs around; I find it amazing any tire can keep up.

 

[djhartm]

I didn't know just how quick street tires could wear till I got my CTR. Before it, I owned a 4 Cyl 6th gen Accord followed by a CR-Z. With those cars, even with regular auto-crossing I would get years out of tires. With the CTR, my wife and I did one track day (two entrants, one car) at a low-speed, tight track, and in that one outing wasted 80% of the tread on the pair of stock conti's I had up front. Thankfully I bought that pair of tires used, but it made up my mind that I'm not tracking again till I get 18s and some better track tires.

It really is incredible to think about the sheer amount of constant forces the front tires on our CTRs endure: 300+ HP through the front wheels, crazy good mechanical grip, and very strong brakes all throwing 3100lbs around; I find it amazing any tire can keep up.

Auto-x is nowhere near as hard on tires as a road course.

This supposition that overdriving is causing this wear is misguided.

Certainly consistently entering corners too hot and sliding the front will accelerate wear, but you'd have to be a moron to drive in that manner for repeated sessions to inflict this level of wear.

This car requires careful monitoring of pressures & rollover as well as smooth driving to preserve the front tires. Even with that, the wear is often exhorbitant.

I'm a PCA & BMW HPDE instructor & ex-racer, so I like to think I know a thing or two about driving and slip angles. I've instructed over 50 students this last driving season for > 8 organizations. I've got over a thousand laps under my belt at VIR alone.

Do I have Randy Pobst's level of skill & car control? No. I wish I did though.

 

[Z3papa]

Auto-x is nowhere near as hard on tires as a road course.

This supposition that overdriving is causing this wear is misguided.

Certainly consistently entering corners too hot and sliding the front will accelerate wear, but you'd have to be a moron to drive in that manner for repeated sessions to inflict this level of wear.

This car requires careful monitoring of pressures & rollover as well as smooth driving to preserve the front tires. Even with that, the wear is often exhorbitant.

I'm a PCA & BMW HPDE instructor & ex-racer, so I like to think I know a thing or two about driving and slip angles. I've instructed over 50 students this last driving season for > 8 organizations. I've got over a thousand laps under my belt at VIR alone.

Do I have Randy Pobst's level of skill & car control? No. I wish I did though.

I disagree with the plain bolded section in part in that autocross is fair harder on tires but not at sustained extended durations. When you are doing 30 maneuvers in 60 seconds with some being tight dig corners, wear is very harsh. Six (6) one-minute runs may result in wear seen by 30 minute track sessions especially in less busy tracks, but never match the wear as a full day at the track. I know and have seen first hand two nearly identical cars/setups with drivers have vastly different driving styles result in radically different wear on the same tires, same course, same day. So I feel certain overdriving can cause excessive wear -- whether it is in your instance IDK but I'd agree with the underlined italixed section that this care requires monitoring of pressures and smooth driving to preserve the tires.

 

[djhartm]

Your tire temps auto-crossing will never come close to what the tire sees during sustained driving on a road course,.

That's a fact.

You can wax poetic about cold-tear in auto-x without warmers, but I've done both.

A road course is much hard on tires.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Z3papa]

Your tire temps auto-crossing will never come close to what the tire sees during sustained driving on a road course,.

That's a fact.

You can wax poetic about cold-tear in auto-x without warmers, but I've done both.

A road course is much hard on tires.

Agree to disagree.

I guess I was clear. I was trying to convey that while one may only drive for 6 minutes on an autocross, the proportionate wear rate (ie. wear rate per minute) is much higher than if someone does 5 or 6 20-30 minute sessions at a track but that on tracks, because of the sustained wear over several sessions, the wear is greater. I can utterly guarantee you that if you hot lapped an autocross course over and over for 20 minute x 5 sessions, your tires would be complete fried. For the record, I've done many track days in other cars and am limiting my experience to dodging cones.

 

[Noize]

This is a CTR thing. Car needs more negative front camber. If you can get -3° with camber plates, this chunking would stop.

No tire manufacturer nor retailer should have to warranty or pay for this. Honda screwed us with the front suspension design not allowing camber adjustment.

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