Warranty Experience @ Local Honda Franchise

[voiddweller]

I just finished speaking with the Service Manager at the local dealer. The new data was sent to Honda Corp (Tech Line) and they (again) said the ECU was modified (something about a VIN mismatch that can only happen if it was connected to another car) and they would not cover any ECU related warranty work. This is the NEW ECU/PCM.

The Service Manager said they basically can't work on the car anymore without charging me. I'm beyond frustrated...

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[SCOPESYS]

I just finished speaking with the Service Manager at the local dealer. The new data was sent to Honda Corp (Tech Line) and they (again) said the ECU was modified (something about a VIN mismatch that can only happen if it was connected to another car) and they would not cover any ECU related warranty work. This is the NEW ECU/PCM.

The Service Manager said they basically can't work on the car anymore without charging me. I'm beyond frustrated...

So they are now claiming that YOU MODIFIED/Programmed the NEW ECU after the DEALER installed it , and after the DEALER messed with it's programming by copying data from the OLD Unit to the new Unit !!!!

Seems RIDICULOUS !!

Did you connect ANYTHING to the NEW ECU yourself, maybe just to read something ???
Where in Hell would the 2nd "NEW" ECU get a different VIN # from .. unless it was NOT a NEW ECU, but rather one that was "Refurbished" ???



Who are you talking to about this ? Benardo LaCosta, Bob Aubrey and Barry Baker -- at Patty Peck Honda ??? Their BBB profile looks pretty good !!

 

[kevv_FK8]

I just finished speaking with the Service Manager at the local dealer. The new data was sent to Honda Corp (Tech Line) and they (again) said the ECU was modified (something about a VIN mismatch that can only happen if it was connected to another car) and they would not cover any ECU related warranty work. This is the NEW ECU/PCM.

The Service Manager said they basically can't work on the car anymore without charging me. I'm beyond frustrated...

It's time to lawyer up!

 

[caspar21]

 

[98-0425]

I can't believe what I am reading

 

[SCOPESYS]

If there is any truth in what the Dealer is telling you, it would seem they failed to tell you that the "NEW" ECU, was not really a NEW unit, but instead, one they got from another car.
If I am wrong, there should be a sales receipt from Honda, listing the ECU and it's Serial Number -- or is that also Honda Propriety Information ??

 

[voiddweller]

I arrived at the store, politely stated I wasn't picking up the car, and requested another new ECU/PCM be ordered and installed.

This didn't go over well with the Service Advisor, so the Service Manager invited me into his office and I told him that I didn't feel safe driving a car that might cut power randomly and wasn't covered under warranty. He said that the new ECU/PCM was covered under warranty. This is not what I was told over the phone.

He stated that Honda would cover the PCM, but any future claims that might be related to the old PCM, would not. He clarified that the mismatch code was not a result of a PCM modification and did not void the warranty. In his words, "...you are 100% covered, but the VIN is flagged so every time it goes in for service, Honda will want the data."

I asked for the phone number of the District Parts and Service Manager (DPSM) since email was not being returned. He said he would forward my information and the DPSM said he would call me in the evening, so I left with the CTR.

A short time later, the DPSM called and we spoke for an hour. It was a pleasant conversation and I let him know that I was very frustrated and his time was appreciated. He said that he appreciated that I was a Honda enthusiast and loyal Honda customer. He also said that it was obvious that I drove the car the way Honda intended, which was good. To get a better understanding of the situation, he asked me to take a close look at the original ECU and described some things that were red flags to tampering. I could see some scratches and finger prints. The Tech told him that they were already on the PCM when he took it out and (in combination with the Tech Line analysis) indicated tampering. I'm paraphrasing, but the Tech Line also stated that there were several failed VIN write attempts and out of boost range markers. I think he said It was also recording boost of 29.1PSI instead of 21.9PSI (don't quote me on the exact numbers) with the old ECU and not with the new ECU. He said he personally drove the car with both ECU's for 30 miles, combined and noticed a difference in power.

For the limited time I drove it with the new ECU it felt the same.

I reiterated that the only apps I used were: Torque Pro, RaceChrono Pro, and ODB2AA. The Tech Line told him that they shouldn't write any data.

This car only has ~4,200 miles and one oil change. I can put dates and times to every place it's been (all Honda stores) for service.

The DPSM is going to speak with Honda Corp again to see if they would provide additional details that corroborate their statement that the ECU was modified and contact me. If all else fails, I'm going to send the ECU to Hondata or KTuner to see if any of their programs are on it. I also have a friend that works for a state Highway Patrol that I may ask to pull the finger prints.

 

[voiddweller]

They noted in the service record that they ordered and installed a new Honda PCM. I never tried to reconnect the old one.

Who are you talking to about this? Benardo LaCosta, Bob Aubrey and Barry Baker -- at Patty Peck Honda??? Their BBB profile looks pretty good!!

Yes, they have a good reputation. The DPSM conversations seemed like a step in the right direction, so I'd like to see it to conclusion before taking the BBB or third party arbitration route. I'm doing everything I can to give Honda the benefit of the doubt to do the right thing. I KNOW I didn't do anything to the car aside from using the Android ODBII apps. They need to show me exactly what happened and when. I'm happy to help, but if there was fraud, I'm the victim not the perpetrator.

 

[JayDiem]

This sounds like some shady business going on here. I am all for being civil to the Dealer/Manufacturer, give them the opportunity to do the right thing and rectify the problems, but there are some major issues here. If what you are saying is true, you have been accused of something you didn't do and your car has been red flagged so they can deny future warranty claims which has now devalued the car IMO. New ECU installed, unaltered, same problems, followed by some runaround lies. I agree they need to provide proof that you did something wrong. This horror story is just another reason I am scared to take my car to a dealer for anything.

You just might have an ace up your sleeve though. Your first post has you purchasing your car in New York State around Sept 2017. The way I see it, you probably already close to qualify and you have 4 months left to lemon law the vehicle. I'd go here: https://ag.ny.gov/consumer-frauds/new-car-lemon-law-fact-sheet as a good starting point.

I'd also recommend consulting with a lawyer from New York to discuss your situation and see how you need to proceed to use that as your final option. If you can viably lemon law the car, and they don't want to react to honey, see how they react when you play that card. Tell them it's more than fine if they want to red flag your car, they can buy it back from you and red flag it for the next guy when they sell it to him with a lemon title. Good luck dealing with this mess, I'll be pulling for you.

 

[voiddweller]

Here's a pic of the ECU they returned to me.

 

[Bodhizefa]

What the actual hell is going on here? I'd be lawyering up bigtime on this issue if it was my vehicle. I would start by getting all my ducks in a row pre-attorney (i.e. getting all the facts from all possible sources so you can put your case together for the attorney so he doesn't have to do it and subsequently charge you for it). I'd wager once you get an attorney involved, the dealership will soften up and be more amenable to work with you. The lemon laws in New York alone should have the dealership quivering once your attorney brings it up to them.

 

[voiddweller]

Today in pictures...

 

[voiddweller]

After initially being told that a loaner would not be covered until Honda approved the warranty work and being asked for gas money by the SM, I requested contact from the GM and DPSM.

They apologized and both said they would get this resolved. The DPSM said he would make me, "100% whole" and apoligized for having his hands tied by corporate engineering. The updated engine harness was ordered and he's looking into refunding the ECU/PCM.

 

[voiddweller]

No updates. I'm driving a 2019 Civic Sport loaner. It just makes me miss the CTR more, when it's running...

 

[kevv_FK8]

No updates. I'm driving a 2019 Civic Sport loaner. It just makes me miss the CTR more, when it's running...

did they scrape the bottom of the front lip when they towed it?

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