VitTuned Drop In Turbo Upgrade -- Initial Results Sneak Peak!

[charleswrivers]

As an Si owner, I think you have a lot less to worry about as compared to the "base" 1.5T owners. Si motors are being pushed harder and I've yet to hear about one ending up with mechanical issues.

Yep, that and the base 11 vanes have a sharper torque spike down low compared to the 9 vane the Si has.

I'm hoping for some traction on someone doing a comparison of the rods. I'd do it myself but I don't have a set of calipers and that's just one more thing to buy. Rather chip in towards someone who has a set.

Thinking N/A... at low RPMs, an engine doesn't need many CFMs. Generally, anything I've seen has a pretty linear rise in CFMs as you raise RPM as the engine is just like an air pump. It isn't perfectly straight but it's close.

With this little turbo stock, you can slam in a HUGE amount of air for a relatively low RPM and make HUGE torque down low. As the top end though, the engine actually really needs some CFMs and the little turbo is tapped out. The base is even worse than the Si. You can hide it a little with a better intercooler but by having a larger volume to compress air in you're going to gain a little lag in the process.

Of all the mods out there, second maybe to Ktuner/Hondata itself... this and any big turbo stuff on the horizon is the most exciting stuff to me. Anything that's making the power up top higher is *really* what is making this car fast. 300+ ft/lbs of torque down low with horsepower falling out badly up top isn't going to make a fast car. *This* is awesome... and bang for the buck for an easy swap, tune and go is probably unbeatable.

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[captlwr]

Aside from an over-rev or two I think most all of the damage we have seen done so far was a result from too much cylinder pressure / torque at too low of an RPM for it to be sustainable. I'm not a mechanic or a pro-tuner but have researched the issue fairly throughly. The other day someone here linked to a post on a Mazdaspeed forum that seemed very relevant to what we are seeing with this platform, they had similar issues while learning that platform. You are not going to going to make any torque worth speaking of without significant boost pressure on the 1.5T platform. You can get away with it at higher RPMs. Not so much down low. There is a fine line somewhere that we are still trying to pinpoint.

As an Si owner, I think you have a lot less to worry about as compared to the "base" 1.5T owners. Si motors are being pushed harder and I've yet to hear about one ending up with mechanical issues.

So - what are you saying?? That with the Factory 1.5L Turbo you should stay off the gas until the Revs build and then nail it to adjust for too much "Low End Torque"?

 

[davemarco]

Yep, that and the base 11 vanes have a sharper torque spike down low compared to the 9 vane the Si has.

I'm hoping for some traction on someone doing a comparison of the rods. I'd do it myself but I don't have a set of calipers and that's just one more thing to buy. Rather chip in towards someone who has a set.

Thinking N/A... at low RPMs, an engine doesn't need many CFMs. Generally, anything I've seen has a pretty linear rise in CFMs as you raise RPM as the engine is just like an air pump. It isn't perfectly straight but it's close.

With this little turbo stock, you can slam in a HUGE amount of air for a relatively low RPM and make HUGE torque down low. As the top end though, the engine actually really needs some CFMs and the little turbo is tapped out. The base is even worse than the Si. You can hide it a little with a better intercooler but by having a larger volume to compress air in you're going to gain a little lag in the process.

Of all the mods out there, second maybe to Ktuner/Hondata itself... this and any big turbo stuff on the horizon is the most exciting stuff to me. Anything that's making the power up top higher is *really* what is making this car fast. 300+ ft/lbs of torque down low with horsepower falling out badly up top isn't going to make a fast car. *This* is awesome... and bang for the buck for an easy swap, tune and go is probably unbeatable.

How difficult would a DIY for installing this upgraded turbo be?

 

[charleswrivers]

How difficult would a DIY for installing this upgraded turbo be?

Ha! Way easier than a Z32 where the engine oughta come out.

Seriously though, poking around in my engine bay and seeing where things are, I think you could do it in an afternoon to evening if you're handy with a wrench and sprayed the fasters down with some penetrating oil ahead of time. Maybe plan a trip to grab a random replacement fastener, as things happen with heat cycled fasteners, though the newer the car the less likely.

If you paid the core charge so you have the new one in hand already and setup ahead of time for the tune, as I'm on the understanding you would be provided a starting map to flash to start driving with the new turbo then be datalogging to get your revisions. Then you could just get your core refunded by sending your stocker back. I do think it required an Si's turbo for the core however... I think that was covered earlier in the thread.

The guy who actually has it would be the guy to ask. It's all *right* there though... so it couldn't be that hard.

 

[360glitch]

So - what are you saying?? That with the Factory 1.5L Turbo you should stay off the gas until the Revs build and then nail it to adjust for too much "Low End Torque"?

The stock ECU calibration (tune) is not dangerous in regards to torque. All of the Ktuner and Hondata base maps are likely safe as well. When you start adding additional low end power beyond that you have something to be concerned about. There is room for more safely in a custom tune, but if you cross the line you end up with new holes in your block. I should note that everyone that has blown their engine seems to have tuned it themselves. (not using a professional tuner) As long as you are in the appropriate gear and have a good tune, you don't have much to worry about. (For example, don't go WOT at 2500 RPMS in 5th or 6th gear. Down shift, and then accelerate.)

 

[Ruskee]

It would be interesting to see some real-world acceleration / driving comparisons between the stock and upgraded turbo. At least on paper, it looks like there's some serious losses in low end torque as well as the horsepower coming in significantly later. Of course at low speeds it's probably still more torque than the car can even put to the ground, but what about at highway speeds when you're already moving at a good pace and traction isn't an issue? Assuming full bolt-ons and tune, will the car feel less powerful / more laggy while cruising in top gear with upgraded turbo versus stock turbo?

 

[charleswrivers]

It would be interesting to see some real-world acceleration / driving comparisons between the stock and upgraded turbo. At least on paper, it looks like there's some serious losses in low end torque as well as the horsepower coming in significantly later. Of course at low speeds it's probably still more torque than the car can even put to the ground, but what about at highway speeds when you're already moving at a good pace and traction isn't an issue? Assuming full bolt-ons and tune, will the car feel less powerful / more laggy while cruising in top gear with upgraded turbo versus stock turbo?

Maybe if you leave your car in top gear in highway speeds and give it a lot of throttle... yeah, there'd be a bit less torque on the bottom end, resulting in less at those same RPMs... but not so much less to make the car feel slow. If you actually want to accelerate and not just make the engine push hard with all the torque and none of the revs and downshifted there'd be substantially more power and you'd find you'd accelerate much quicker.

Nothing about this is making the car slower. It is making the car make torque later, at higher RPMs. It takes torque and RPMs to make horsepower. RPMs with not much torque? That's what we have now... (relatively) weak up top. Torque with a lot of RPMs... that's what we have now... but you can't make a lot of horsepower without the RPMs. Well, I guess you can if your engine is built for it (ie won't break with HUGE torque). It's just the way it is.

 

[Ruskee]

That makes sense. I definitely like the idea of a smoother powerband and more horsepower at higher rpms ..seems fitting for a car whose previous generations were ALL about top end power (and barely enough torque lol). And I'm very much on board with the safety aspect of having less stress on the internals. It would just be cool to see some side by side driving impressions.

 

[varge]

Question: on several of the "I blew up my engine" threads that have popped up, I have seen multiple mentions of how running higher boost levels could potentially cause a catastrophic overboost condition. I believe that one of the main advantages of this turbo is that it allows for much higher levels of boost (albeit at higher RPMS).

Could someone please help me to reconcile these "overboost" comments with the idea that this new turbo will be much safer? Would "overboost" in this context just be a stand in for "too much torque" low in the rev range, or is overboost a separate phenomenon?

Well, the engine in general has two enemies while tuning. Excessive torque that can bend rods, wear down clutch and limit the longevity of most mechanical parts in the transmission, and Excessive boost / lean fuel / ignition timing around peak horsepower that will cause the engine to knock and will damage pistons most likely.

In this context and since the TD03 turbo is able to deliver massive amounts of boost and torque down low, it is very easy for someone to increase the boost (and the torque) to levels where the rods can't handle the pushing force and bend. Some luckier folks may experience clutch slipping and this can actually protect the engine internals (I'm not sure we know of the actual mechanical limits of these parts just yet, plus any part may be better made than another).

This turbo replacement makes it *just* a little harder to build huge amounts of boost down low, but permits higher air flow at high RPM. Remember that at higher RPM the torque produced is lower, so as long as fuel mixture and ignition timing are properly managed the engine should be fine. The same goes for transmission parts that actually don't suffer that much at high RPM ...

 

[davemarco]

Well, the engine in general has two enemies while tuning. Excessive torque that can bend rods, wear down clutch and limit the longevity of most mechanical parts in the transmission, and Excessive boost / lean fuel / ignition timing around peak horsepower that will cause the engine to knock and will damage pistons most likely.

In this context and since the TD03 turbo is able to deliver massive amounts of boost and torque down low, it is very easy for someone to increase the boost (and the torque) to levels where the rods can't handle the pushing force and bend. Some luckier folks may experience clutch slipping and this can actually protect the engine internals (I'm not sure we know of the actual mechanical limits of these parts just yet, plus any part may be better made than another).

This turbo replacement makes it *just* a little harder to build huge amounts of boost down low, but permits higher air flow at high RPM. Remember that at higher RPM the torque produced is lower, so as long as fuel mixture and ignition timing are properly managed the engine should be fine. The same goes for transmission parts that actually don't suffer that much at high RPM ...

So as long as the tune applied hits the appropriate AFR and the torque levels are appropriate for the engine, then there should be no issue running very high boost levels, correct?

 

[varge]

So as long as the tune applied hits the appropriate AFR and the torque levels are appropriate for the engine, then there should be no issue running very high boost levels, correct?

Just remember that the factory setup leaves a lot of room for safety reasons, in order to handle the unexpected. The closer the tune gets you to those limits, the more prone to damage you become. The engine may be able to handle bad fuel with limited performance but may go off when it is pushed to the limit and bad fuel is used. The same goes for other events, so ... yes (proper tuning should not be a problem to longevity under good conditions) and no (an unexpected condition is much more likely to cause damage under extreme tuning)
That said, I think there is already enough experience in the community about what is *VERY* safe to do and what starts to impose a greater factor of risk.

 

[davemarco]

Just checking in. It seems that this upgrade has disappeared from Vit's website. Was there a design issue, or perhaps a sourcing delay?

Was looking forward to reading more from those that have done this upgrade.

 

[Xtelotatichl]

Just checking in. It seems that this upgrade has disappeared from Vit's website. Was there a design issue, or perhaps a sourcing delay?

Was looking forward to reading more from those that have done this upgrade.

No for sure answer, but what is known is exactly what you said, it is not available at this time

 

[17siturb0]

Bump for answers.. what’s going on?

 

[AsianGuy98]

Bump for answers.. what’s going on?

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