Type R FBO + Custom Tune Dyno Results (376 whp / 387 wtq) & Products Review (PRL, Remus, PTP/USR)

  1. idragmazda

    idragmazda Senior Member

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    #1 idragmazda, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
    ***UPDATE*** - saw Derek again at Innovative Motorworks this past week and he refined the tune a bit more. Smoothed out the torque curve and cleaned up a few things resulting in a little more power. Car is now at 376 whp / 387 wtq on 93 octane fuel. More to come soon...


    Original post below:

    Hey all,

    I wanted to write this post to do two things: (1) demonstrate what a modestly tuned FK8 with full bolt ons ("FBO") can be capable of on a dyno; and (2) provide a review of a typical combination of full bolt on parts that many people who daily drive this car may use

    Just some background - my car is a daily driver that I also want to be able to track occasionally. Therefore, the combination of FBO parts I installed factors in the “daily driver-ness” I need (hence why I ran a catted vs. catless downpipe and my other mod choices as described below).

    I’ll start with the dyno numbers for the different combinations first (since that is what most people care about), and then further below you can read my review of the parts and my rationale for choosing these components.

    DYNO NUMBERS
    Introduction: Custom tuning was done by Honda legend @D-RobIMW at Innovative MotorWorks in Carlisle, PA. Numbers below are on 93 octane using a Dynapack dynamometer, with ambient temps 50-60F and IAT 70-80F during the dyno runs. I also compared the Dynapack numbers to the numbers we achieved on @PRL’s Dynojet one week prior (similar weather, etc.) – and the Dynapack read 2% higher, which is not significant. Derek also set up a boost by gear tune for me to help with launching; in my early testing so far it seems to make the car hook much better in 1st and 2nd.

    I think there are a few more tweaks left for more power potential, so I’ll post an update when that happens...

    FBO + Custom Tune by Derek: 376 whp / 387 wtq
    (+70 whp / + 82 wtq over stock baseline and +32whp / +22 wtq gain over KTuner Stage 1 DP Tune)
    Notes: Derek capped the peak torque and moved the torque curve to the right in order to not overstress the internal components and to preserve longevity. The engine is capable of making more torque and making this higher torque much earlier on in the RPM band, both of which I specifically wanted to avoid.


    FBO + KTuner Stage 1 DP Off-The-Shelf Tune: 344 whp / 365 wtq
    (+38 whp / +60 wtq over stock baseline)
    Notes: This is the off-the-shelf tune that is included with K-Tuner. It does account for a downpipe, but I am using a PRL catted downpipe which may not be optimal for this tune (PRL has indicated a catless downpipe would have likely yielded 5-10 higher hp).

    FBO + No Tune: 310 whp / 300 wtq
    (+4 whp / no wtq gain over stock baseline)
    Notes: This was extremely surprising to me. I would have thought full bolt-ons would have yielded much higher numbers; however, this is because the FK8 ECU is based on torque targets. Once the car starts making torque in excess of the the target ever so slightly, it will pull back torque so you'll see it basically bouncing around right near 300 wtq in the graphs. What this tells me and what this should tell all other FK8 owners is that you should definitely have some kind of tuning solution in order to maximize power from your pricey aftermarket bolt-ons!

    Stock Baseline: 306 whp / 305 wtq
    Notes: Unfortunately we were unable to do a true stock baseline of my car since I came to Derek’s shop with my FBO parts already installed. However, he was able to pull up numbers from a completely stock Type R that he ran just recently. I know this doesn’t provide a 100% accurate comparison, but this is close enough

    Comparison of custom tune (solid red line), Ktuner Stage 1 + DP tune (dashed red line), and FBO with no tune (dashed green line):

    FBO-KTuner-IMW-Graphs.jpg

    Dynapack.jpg



    FBO PARTS & REVIEW

    PRL Stage 1 Intake
    I went with the tube + drop in filter combination from @PRL. It’s a very clean design and sounds wonderful when you’re on the throttle / in boost. When you just want to enjoy a relaxed cruise and you stay out of boost, you barely hear the faint "tututu". The turbo spool and blow off is much more pronounced than it was stock previously, but it’s not obnoxiously loud and only there when you really want it.

    I went with this intake system vs. competing products because (1) I trust the craftsmanship of PRL’s products, (2) I knew spending 3x or even 10x more on an intake system wasn’t going to provide an equivalent more return in terms of power or cooler IAT2 temps. Since installing this (in combination with the PTP/USR turbo blanket), my IAT2 temps are about 5-8F degrees cooler on average. I’m not sure how much of the IAT2 drop is attributable to the turbo blanket vs. the intake itself. Either way, good product and great value.

    PRL-Intake.jpg


    PRL Intercooler
    (EDIT: Just as I did for the Remus Exhaust, I'll do a separate detailed write up on PRL intercooler + Stage 1 intake + turbo blanket and the effects of these parts on intake temps)
    I went with the tried and tested intercooler, and liked the fact that it had billet aluminum ends (versus cast). I was lucky enough to tour PRL's shop to see how they manufactured these things, and I liked what I saw. I also liked that it was a direct drop-in vs. needing modifications to make it work.

    I am still compiling some data, but based on some preliminary numbers I have gathered, my IATs are about 10 degrees cooler on average in heavy stop-and-go city traffic and most importantly I see IATs coming down MUCH faster once I begin to accelerate again. With the stock intercooler, once the car was heat-soaked (IATs 120F+) it was nearly impossible to cool it off without turning it off and letting it sit for a while. This is not the case with the PRL product – with their intercooler, even if I hit IAT of 120F from sitting in city traffic, as soon as I start moving again, IATs come down very quickly.

    I have also seen IAT within 5F degrees of ambient temperature under acceleration on the highway. I NEVER saw my IAT this low with the stock intercooler. Again, the turbo blanket I have installed probably also helps with keeping IAT down, but this is a great combination so far, especially now that the car has more power and subsequently more heat.

    PRL-Intercooler.jpg

    PRL-Intercooler-2.jpg


    PRL CATTED downpipe
    I went with the catted version (vs. the catless version) because I live in PA where we have emissions testing annually and because this is my daily driver and I do not want the smell of a catless downpipe entering the cabin. I knew I missed out on a few hp (5-10 hp according to PRL themselves) by going with the slightly more restrictive catted version, but that is OK with me. I have not thrown any codes, etc. but I think I have one of the newer designs (PRL please correct me if I'm wrong)

    PTP / USR turbo blanket
    This thing just works. Just buy one. I have mine installed without the heat shield on at the moment and the underhood temps are definitely lower (specifically the IAT2 as I described above). I plan to put the heat shield on and I may high-temp coat that as well like others on this forum have done. I also plan to wrap the downpipe next time I have the front end off (I keep kicking myself for not doing it when it was off).

    Turbo-Blanket.jpg

    Remus Front Pipe + Exhaust: Detailed Review
    I wrote a pretty comprehensive review about this exhaust here: https://www.civicx.com/threads/remus-exhaust-detailed-review.30099/

    In summary, it’s awesome and loud when you want it and not loud when you don’t. Some pics and video below. One thing we found was that when the valve is fully closed to when valve is fully open, there is a 7hp difference.

    Remus-Exhaust-Tips.jpg

    Remus-Exhaust-Valves.jpg



    KTuner V1.2.
    I had used Hondata in the past on a 2018 SI and I wanted to try something new. Heard great things about KTuner’s platform (particularly that you could store different power levels based on what mode you are in – comfort, sport, +R). I went with the V1.2 unit because it is wireless. You plug it into the OBD II port and go. The TunerView app that pairs with the KTuner V1.2 unit works great and I just recently found out that you can load multiple tunes to the KTuner V1.2 unit and flash the tune directly from the head unit TunerView app, and you can also data log directly from the TunerView app (you need a laptop to view the data log but not to flash or actual record the data). The Hondata and the V2 units are all connected by a cord and I didn’t want that. Also I should note KTuner's customer support has been great - I email @KTuner and he responds very quickly, even for my most ridiculous questions (i.e. I couldn't figure out how to see a certain graph today).

    Custom Tuning by Derek at Innovative MotorWorks @D-RobIMW
    Not technically a bolt on but I wanted to comment on this because how important I thought Derek’s service was / is to the car. First off, in Honda circles if you’ve been around long enough, his reputation precedes him and for good reason. His customer service is impeccable and he has a ton of tuning experience (see his instagram). He was able to fit me into his schedule last minute, on a Saturday nonetheless. He explains tuning concepts and strategies very clearly in a way that a layman can understand. He also answered my elementary questions and allowed me to hang around the shop while he did his tuning work. Even after the tune was done, he tweaked a few things remotely via email and his response time was very quick. His services are worth every penny. In addition to just normal in-person tuning, he also does remote tuning.

    ____

    Anyway, that is my super long post. I hope you were able to take something away from reading this.

    Thanks to @PRL Motorsports @REMUS USA @KTuner @D-RobIMW for helping me with the build so far. Can't wait to get it out on the track.

    FBO-KTuner-IMW-Graphs.jpg
     
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  2. FK8_K20c1

    FK8_K20c1 HONDA The Power of Earth Dreams Technology!

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    I’ve been wanting information like this for a looooong time thanks man really appreciate this. Nice readout.
     
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  3. VTECnR

    VTECnR Senior Member

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    What's FBO mean?
     
  4. FK8_K20c1

    FK8_K20c1 HONDA The Power of Earth Dreams Technology!

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    Full Bolts On
     
  5. OP
    idragmazda

    idragmazda Senior Member

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    Full bolt ons
     
  6. Ramster

    Ramster Senior Member

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    #6 Ramster, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    Great info! We’ve got similar setup in terms of FBO. I’m still waiting on my KTuner v2 then it’s off to find a reputable shop to tune it, not many in Nashville though that can do it.
     
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  7. OP
    idragmazda

    idragmazda Senior Member

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    Derek does remote tuning! Hit him up!
     
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  8. Ramster

    Ramster Senior Member

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    I’ll def check him out, would be nice to see the work done in person. Too bad I can’t just fly my car back to Philly because I’m from Philly and I go back home once a month.
     
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  9. OP
    idragmazda

    idragmazda Senior Member

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    Lol I hear that. Yeah it was pretty neat to be in the shop, but at the same time about half of the time goes simply to just the reflashing process (sitting for multiple 7-10 minutes sessions for the ecu to update each time you tweak the tune). Still a really great learning experience though. It got me much more interested in the tuning side of things.
     
  10. fk8mike

    fk8mike Senior Member

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    nice write up!! and the fbo test without tune is on stage1 ktuner map or oem one?
     
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  11. OP
    idragmazda

    idragmazda Senior Member

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    The FBO+ No Tune is the stock /oem map NOT the Ktuner stages 1 map.
     
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  12. NoelPR

    NoelPR Senior Member

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    #12 NoelPR, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    And this is how you post a tune/dyno session. Should be a sticky.

    This is a tuner that knows what he is doing.
     
  13. boosted180sx

    boosted180sx Senior Member

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    can you upload a higher resolution picture of the dyno graph lol.
     
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  14. KTuner

    KTuner Senior Member
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    Excellent results and even better to see you're happy!
     
  15. OP
    idragmazda

    idragmazda Senior Member

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    Sorry, first time posting pics like this lol. It should be working now.
     
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