Tuners! How much timing advance?! Asking for the people!

  1. PowerPerLiter

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    Is there a good range of ideal timing advance numbers at wot/full load that anyone would care to share with the people?

    To the people: post what max timing advance you are seeing at wide open throttle

    I believe this would benefit the community and may prevent some "incidents".
     
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  2. kshawn

    kshawn Senior Member

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    or cause more "Incidents" :rolleyes1:

    timing isn't really black and white. there allot of factors that will contribute to how much timing you can run. boost being the biggest factor. the higher the boost the less you'll be able to advance the timing.
    when I was on the stock turbo, running 26PSI, I was able to get away with adding 2-3 degrees to the top end. the trick is to only make small changes between revisions and do some pulls. if K control stays at .49 then you're good to up it a little more, either with boost or timing.

    the safest bet is to go to a reputable tuner and get it done right. if you aren't familiar with the tuning process, you can do allot of damage very quickly.
     
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  3. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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    #3 PowerPerLiter, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    I am very familiar with the process :)
    More than a few people have payed me to "toon" their stuff on quite a few different ecu setups.
    I am no professional just a hobbyist.
    I have gotten away with 5-6 degrees advance with 20psi on my car (it LOVED this- but was in the 40-50 degree ambient season).
    The "canned" tunes are normally hovering around 0 at full load.

    What prompted this was someone commenting on my screen shot of my 26 psi map with +1 timing. They said it was too low. And seeing that I NEVER HAVE knock control movement it made me think I was being too conservative....and your post suggests I have some wiggle room. Hence the reason for the post.

    Imagine if the guys that blew their stuff up shared this kind of data (most havent even a clue what we are discussing). All of the sudden some trends in the data would appear.

    I never post expecting much return so we will see where it goes.

    Just wanted a collection of timing numbers for the reputable guys that do know what they are doing.
     
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  4. gtman

    gtman Senior Member

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    PPL, being at CivicX from the beginning, I can tell you most people here won't post their tune setups (I do, but I don't advance timing). I guess it's fear that someone will use their numbers, blow up their engine, and then blame them.
     
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  5. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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    #5 PowerPerLiter, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    Yes you, kshawn, myx and **Charles rivers** (cant think of his screen name at the moment) are very much enjoyable to read and contribute to these kinds of posts with the big name dudes (d-rob,ktuner,map).

    I just figured maybe slowly but surely it could become informational for the future owners/ self tuners.



    These cars being load based almost exclusively its more a watch and monitor thing for me. Without access to any tangible ve table or any of the deeper tables my hands aren't necessarily tied but i wish i could see and know more of what the others see and know, ya know?

    I just this week enabled ethanol for the same map I was running and during initial testing saw -6 at peak load with e15. This has since returned to 0-1+ after the tune settled in. 24psi. Car is running SUPER STRONG but this still seems low to me referencing some other posts.
     
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  6. kshawn

    kshawn Senior Member

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    take a look at your ethanol tables, unless you changed them, Ktuners advancement for eth is pretty conservative.

    starting from the included stage 2 maps. I've gotten away with 3 degrees of advancement, up top. 4, if i'm not so boost happy and keep my peak boost at 25. tapering off to 21 at redline.

    and yah I've seen what ktuner looks like with all the stuff available. definitely allot is hidden from us. but probably for a good reason haha.

    sounds like you have more room to wiggle up, if K control isn't budging. heck when I started running meth i ran 7 degrees at 26PSI lol. just go slow and bring IGN up 1 at a time.

    when working on my own, in the past, i'd set boost for where i wanted it. then would bring ign up till k control was going up to .52-.55. just stay away from IGN under 3500, add up top.
     
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  7. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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    #7 PowerPerLiter, Jul 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    General question- does ktuner allow access to airflow limit tables?

    I have them and noticed some interesting changes for the 27won provided basemap and the other provided maps; mostly pertaining to the knock airflow limit.

    I am not trying to use this map.

    I have asked hondata directly and couldnt get but a vague response out of them.

    From what I have gathered combined with my presumptions this table is not only a limit but also a "command".

    I would love to know what this directly effects because in my mind all it could manipulate is cam angles to change actual cylinder fill based on rpm and ignition limit.

    I am wondering if this has any role in timing advance...to clarify why I brought this up I am trying to avoid manipulating the ignition limit table directly as I have learned the tables I can manipulate are "reference tables" for the most part.

    I want to manipulate whatever is in the computer telling it to lower timing with more airflow.

    I thought this would be torque limit but my torque limit is so high I dont think its "managing" anything currently.
     
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  8. kshawn

    kshawn Senior Member

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    Cylinder fill limit tables?
     
  9. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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  10. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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  11. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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    snip 1.GIF

    not mine (google image)
     
  12. turbociv910

    turbociv910 Senior Member

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    My take is if the engine is knocking this is the limit of cylinder air allowable.. less air+same fuel =rich.

    knock recovery?

    Make this number smaller (richer) so it is safer with quickest recovery, or higher(not as rich) so that it is more near the "edge" of recovery but maintains higher engine power/torque.

    Could be how aggressivly it attacks knock too based on how much air is tries to limit going in the cylinder.
     
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  13. kshawn

    kshawn Senior Member

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    Ah yes. I'm thinking of the ktuner equivalent. Tho even when I ran 26 psi from the stock turbo. 26 between 3500-4500, I never hit the cylinder fill limits. Came close a few times. Usually when I would gun it from a stop.
     
  14. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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    If you read the response on hondata board it says this table can't control boost pressure directly though?!....too much grey area for me to feel comfortable.
     
  15. OP
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    PowerPerLiter

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    I didn't spend 700 bucks for an afc2. I bought hondata to write my own shit and here i am playing games with shit.

    I don't want the watered down bullshit (not yall, them) i want some more light shed on how these ecu's actually work.

    It's not right to the consumer
     
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