TSP Stage 1 Hondata Flashpro Tune For 2016+ HONDA CIVIC 1.5T NON-SI

  1. arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    #1 arnoldo, Feb 9, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
    I recently purchased TSP Stage 1 Hondata Flashpro tune for 2016+ Civic 1.5T Non-SI.

    I always use RON 98 fuel, which I believe should equal with 91-93 octane US fuel. The car is only 1.5 months old and its mileage is relatively low at 756 km when I flashed the tune.

    I never purchased a canned tune in the past as I prefer dyno tune. I recently found out that most of tuners in my country do not bother to really create a custom tune on the dyno for the car but rather reflash Hondata basemap and called it a day.

    Throttle and turbo response improved compared to basemap. On the basemaps, boost would only start at 2500+ RPM & felt a little dragging. Boost and throttle seem to be more linear with TSP Stage 1.

    Responsiveness is improved and lag I experienced less lag with TSP Stage 1 compare to basemap and TSP Stage 1 tune is somewhat smoother than basemap, in a very controlled and refined way. The car feels more agile, but not in an annoying way.

    I could rarely do WOT driving on the highway due to bad traffic in my city but I always datalog regardless bad traffic or not. Thankfully, I could do aggressive driving in 1 fine morning (5:30 AM) so I floored it in one occasion.

    I went through a few datalogs that I have recorded and I found the following interesting fact:
    1. TSP Stage 1 peak boost was 23.7 PSI at 4,488 RPM. Will this be safe for my engine internals knowing that our 1.5T non-SI conrod is not as durable as the SI variant?
    2. I took a peak on torque limiter setup and found torque limited goes up higher than Hondata recommendation. Torque limiter at 3500 RPM is 287 nm, 4000 RPM limited to 310 nm, 4500 RPM limited to 300 nm, 5000-7000 RPM limited to 325 nm. Will this be safe for my CVT transmission?
    3. Fuel trim is worse than Hondata basemap. Fuel trim with basemap hovering between -10 and -5 at average. TSP Stage 1 hovering between -14 and -7.
    I understand that I'm purchasing canned tune and no customized tune is made regardless the environment where I live in that might affects fuel trim and tune.

    I wish there is information regarding safe maximum tuned boost that our internal could take and the actual safe torque limit that our CVT could take when tuned.

    Due to safety consideration, durability, and longevity of my car, I might have to ditch TSP Stage 1 tune and switch back to Hondata Flashpro basemap with the hope to find tuner to help me refining fuel trim. Driving experience may not be as awesome as TSP stage 1 but at least it meets my requirements.

    My considerations are as simple as the 3 facts that I found from datalog.

    This is screenshot from datalog:
    TSP-Stage-1-Datalog-Summary.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Hondanickx

    Hondanickx Senior Member

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    What fuel trim are you monitoring? I asume the Short Term fuel trim?You should be monitoring the Long term fuel trim and that should be a max of +/- 10
     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    LTFT always showing 100% even at stock tune. According to Hondata, some stock ECU disable LTFT monitoring.

    ECU ID: 37820-5AG-P83.
     
  4. Hondanickx

    Hondanickx Senior Member

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    Ahh ok i see .From what i've seen the STFT doesn't matter that much because it fluctuates a lot.
     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    I understand that STFT fluctuates as it is a realtime fuel trim. However, my understanding is healthy fuel trim should range between -10 and 10.

    To be fair, it is really difficult to evaluate when dealing with stock ECU with no LTFT monitoring. According to Hondata, the ECU disable LTFT monitoring.

    Strangely, I haven’t seen any KTuner user complaining about inaccurate LTFT.
     
  6. captminer

    captminer Senior Member

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    some region ecu's do not have ltft such as us in asia i believe, it would be at -100%
    yes stft within 10% is good mine is within +/- 5% after some fine tuning & i do see some sort of fuel economy, it does jumps around alot so take an overall avg
    OP send it to a proper tuner to custom tune but for fuel trims imo it's better do it otr with actual conditions, do some logs while driving like you did then you should be able to get closer to the targets you desire.
    Like i told you before in PM what you see may not be the actual result that you may get.
     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    It's really weird that Honda disable ltft reading in datalog for some ECU for specifoc region, while fuel trim is important for cars be it stock or tuned.

    I can only wish I could find a local tuner, who would spend time tuning fuel trim. Tuners I know in my city apparently only flash basemap & call it a day when they see average joe customers. They seems to prefer tuning real race cars to promote their workshop.
     
  8. salik990

    salik990 Member

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    You r in Indonesia u can find local tuners as there's many in Thailand and Malaysia/Singapore. Do try to find experience hondata tuner guy as they are more aware of the local fuel & weather.

    Since you got the tsp stage 1, did u felt quicker and faster on higher rpm? Also what other supporting mods you have as these bolt-on do really help with tsp stage 1.

    Couple of my friends has tsp stage 1 on ktuner with bolt-on parts and they r 2-3 cars ahead on drag race as m on the 6+psi base map with bolt-on parts as well. I was thinking to exchange flashpro with derek and get ktuner with custom map.
     
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  9. captminer

    captminer Senior Member

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    not that difficult :) yeah but sucks with the tuners you know only caters to their interest sadly. although i'm using KTuner but hondata should be similar & hope you can find someone to custom tune your car.



     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    I know many tuners in Indonesia and I recently found out that they didn't do much on their regular customers's car but just flash basemap from basemap options from tuning device and call it a day. None of them really go into detail such as ignition timing and fuel tuning. In fact, all tuners in Indonesia that I know stated there is no point of ignition and fuel tuning for daily driver car with stock parts. They said basemap is enough. I used to believe this but my own experience proven that the statement is wrong.

    These tuners I know are reputable tuners who owns famous workshop and servicing country's top racer by the way.

    TSP Stage 1 is a great tune! I enjoy driving on TSP Stage 1. In fact, I love my car even more. I have no bolt on and not planning to get one as I feel the stock internal does pretty good job delivering the performance that I need.

    I only worry about my stock internal durability in handling 23.7 PSI of peak boost and the issue that Hondata stated regarding torque should not exceed 250 nm because TSP Stage 1 torque is at 300-ish RPM from 3000 RPM and higher.

    If you are planning to get a canned tune, I fully recommend TSP Stage 1.

    Maybe we can arrange some e-tune service if I purchase KTuner from you one day when I really fed up with Hondata Flashpro.
     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    According to Hondata, some ECU disable LTFT reading. Our fellow member in Malaysia, who also a tuner, confirms that some ECU in Asia disable LTFT reading. If that is the case, it's really weird that Honda disable LTFT reading in ECU of some regions and enabling this reading on ECU of other regions.
     
  12. captminer

    captminer Senior Member

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    i dont think it's hondata disabling it, it's honda themselves sadly.
     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    Yes. It is sad if Honda were really disabling LTFT reading on some ECU regionally. The only explanation I could believe is the LTFT reading is in place but tuning device developers need to figure out the binary because Honda might use different binary for LTFT in some ECU ID.
     
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    arnoldo

    arnoldo Senior Member

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    It depends on what kind of bolt on. Aftermarket intake is not advisable let alone the 1 with race MAF. Intercooler would help sustaining performance in tropical climate. Catless downpipe might screw up fuel trim if tuned solely based on STFT.
     
  15. captminer

    captminer Senior Member

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    if you say so then i think you must be right but can you check your recent datalogs during WOT specifically on stft/ltft numbers ? maybe you can share since you have ltft to safely / properly tune them. sadly for us we only have stft & ltft it's always -100% regardless of close or open loop.

    much TIA for your great tip & looking fwd to your datalog share:)
     
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