Toyota Supra 2019

[HondaFan2017]

I bumped into this article:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterl...-its-a-toyota-bmw-collaboration/#60ad77c92001

It says production version will be presented at this year's Geneva motor show edition on March 6.
I read further "Now to the all-important engine selection that was co-developed with BMW. The entry-level model will be powered by a 2.0-liter 4-cylinder turbo generating 192 hp while a high-powered 245 hp 2.0-liter turbo will offer beefier performance. Leading the new line-up as its flagship model is a BMW-developed 3.0-liter inline 6-cylinder turbo pumping out a healthy 360 hp, with all three engine mated to an 8-speed ".

A bit disappointed. I was hoping for more performance. I don't see the new Supra being much lighter than Type R. My guess is the lowest version will be at least 35k. The 360 bhp could go beyond 50k. In that price range, 2 seater you have already good cars - central engine, more power maybe.

What do you guys think? Do you see any clientele niche to which this car would appeal to(besides nostalgic buyers)?

Sponsored

 

[charleswrivers]

If those power figures and price points are accurate and it's a 2 seater, front engine RWD (real) sports car, I think it's going to be a tough sell beside things like a Corvette. You have your low-powered fun stuff (BRZ/MX5) in the 25k-35k range... the your starter Vette around 50k. If the 370z will *ever* die and they put the higher end VR30(whatever all the letters are)TT that makes 400hp... it might be a more direct competition. This may be sort of a 'tweener car... like the 350z shoehorned itself in back in '03, with the Mustang still weak, the Camaro not around and the Vette still costing more.

Numbers aren't everything... but its going to have to be very special that fills a niche that has a big market... or do something very well to set itself apart.

With it's smooth, high torque straight 6, styling that really came into it's own in the last incarnation that holds up well today and having a lot of headroom for minimal investment (I know my Z32s only came with 370cc injectors stock... I know there's were kinda 'large' for OEM. I think they were around 555s) ...it was popular. Not to mention TFATF. Until that cane out, the Supra, at least to me, was just another one of the great 90s sportcars that died out... but one that was more towards the top of the heap. 300zx, Supra, Rx7, 3000gt and it's Stealth clone...they were all great cars that helped make it a fun time.

The straight line performance of these 90s cars have been virtually matched by the engine optioned family sedans of today. I don't know... I'd like to say that current incarnations could sell and sell well. Nissan's all but given up on doing updates (even the GTR is languishing), Mazda can't do (or seems like they can't do) rotaries with their excessive fuel consumption and oil consumption by design in today's market. Dodge is killing the Viper. Mitsubishi killed their Evo. Go figure... Toyota, the 'boring' brand, is swinging. Maybe they'll swing for the fences and knock it out of the park.

 

[HondaFan2017]

If those power figures and price points are accurate and it's a 2 seater, front engine RWD (real) sports car, I think it's going to be a tough sell beside things like a Corvette. You have your low-powered fun stuff (BRZ/MX5) in the 25k-35k range... the your starter Vette around 50k. If the 370z will *ever* die and they put the higher end VR30(whatever all the letters are)TT that makes 400hp... it might be a more direct competition. This may be sort of a 'tweener car... like the 350z shoehorned itself in back in '03, with the Mustang still weak, the Camaro not around and the Vette still costing more.

Numbers aren't everything... but its going to have to be very special that fills a niche that has a big market... or do something very well to set itself apart.

With it's smooth, high torque straight 6, styling that really came into it's own in the last incarnation that holds up well today and having a lot of headroom for minimal investment (I know my Z32s only came with 370cc injectors stock... I know there's were kinda 'large' for OEM. I think they were around 555s) ...it was popular. Not to mention TFATF. Until that cane out, the Supra, at least to me, was just another one of the great 90s sportcars that died out... but one that was more towards the top of the heap. 300zx, Supra, Rx7, 3000gt and it's Stealth clone...they were all great cars that helped make it a fun time.

The straight line performance of these 90s cars have been virtually matched by the engine optioned family sedans of today. I don't know... I'd like to say that current incarnations could sell and sell well. Nissan's all but given up on doing updates (even the GTR is languishing), Mazda can't do (or seems like they can't do) rotaries with their excessive fuel consumption and oil consumption by design in today's market. Dodge is killing the Viper. Mitsubishi killed their Evo. Go figure... Toyota, the 'boring' brand, is swinging. Maybe they'll swing for the fences and knock it out of the park.

Agree it has to stand out to sell in this market context. Judging by figures only I'd choose a hot hatch(plenty of power, pretty good handling, more practical,cheaper to maintain) any day over the Supra.
Yeah those sports cars were amazing, brings back memories from my teenage years. Every now and then I think about getting one (last time there was a nice 1998 Supra in my area for 13k). But comparing them to actual family sedans you realize that performance will be unimpressive. I think also that for combustion engines performance we are currently close to a technological limit (things are made harder by all regulations also). It's increasingly harder/expensive to have those affordable performance increments as we had up until the 90s. Let's be honest and count how many performant, regulation compliant and reliable cars are on the market above when approaching the 300 hp mark. Not many that I can think of. If we factor in the affordability criterion it's none.

Even considering inflation car prices are getting higher. One needs to make choices. Maybe the market asks for more polyvalent cars. Hence those specialized cars that are disappearing.

 

[SpooRk]

General topic forum

I’ve seen topics on the veloster, Renault, and focus RS.. Even posts that are only relevant to a specific region of the US (NorCal headcount..?? Texas roads, etc.). Where the mods at?

 

[Shankmeyster]

When you can get a 400+ hp Mustang GT for around $30k they better get it close to that price with the top end model.

 

[leehom]

When you can get a 400+ hp Mustang GT for around $30k they better get it close to that price with the top end model.

Not possible. 86/BRZ (limited) is almost up to 30k with a paltry 200 hp.

Maybe Toyota discontinues the 86 and Supra replaces it at the mid 20's for 192 hp? The 245 hp model for low 30's and the 360 hp model for slightly under $40k?

Do we know for sure it's coming out as a 2019 model? Seems like it has been announced a very long time ago and Toyota is taking their sweet time.

 

[charleswrivers]

The 370z is a minimal improvement off the last of the 350zs with the HR 3.5 VQ. It's been soldiering on for 9 years. I can't believe Nissan hasn't axed it. In reality, the 300zx went 10 years globally... They just killed it in '96 in the US. Nissan is notorious for letting their lineup stagnate.

The Celica lasted a long time... when it died the Tc under Scion sort of took it's place... but that was the plan. I'd rather see them bring the Celica nameplate back for a mid-20s sub-200 hp car. The last GTS had 180 hp I think. A sub-200 hp Supra would go over like a lead balloon. The Supra has this reputation, deserved or not, at being the most powerful of all the 90s Japanese sport cars... cracking 1000 hp... beating Vin Diesel... etc. They'd better go big or not go at all.

The Celica name could easily be brought back for the lesser role. The Celica had a pretty good run. The last gen didn't age well IMO, but I remember in the 80s going in the 90s a lot of reasonably quick but *very* good handling Celicas running around. I comparison shopped a GTS vs my RSX type-S but the RSX was a *much* better car and felt like it had a lot more than the 20 extra hp it was supposed to have.

 

[scoobysnack]

Whats the point of buying a Toyota Supra that doesn't come with a Toyota engine? BMW isn't known for their reliability.

 

[Tim818]

There were rumors that the outgoing model is going to be powered by the 3.5 V6TT that’s found in the new Lexus LS.

 

[HondaFan2017]

I’ve seen topics on the veloster, Renault, and focus RS.. Even posts that are only relevant to a specific region of the US (NorCal headcount..?? Texas roads, etc.). Where the mods at?

Sorry, if the topics I opened don't fit in here should be moved by all means. Reasoning was that you are more likely to be interested in these cars along with Type R.

 

[Night Fury]

Meh.

 

[Lunar]

Me likey

 

[xcivicx]

its not a toyota. same as the 86 not a toyota. same as honda's subi rodeo.

 

[Deleted member]

When you can get a 400+ hp Mustang GT for around $30k they better get it close to that price with the top end model.

The point of a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger is to have a cheap car that is quick in a straight line. They are terrible for anything but a drag race. There are $100,000 cars with less than 300hp and they are a bargain. Realistically, if the goal was simply 400hp and under 35k sticker price with no other requirements, any car company in the world could make one if they wanted to.

 

[charleswrivers]

I'm not a Mustang guy (more like a self proclaimed Mustang hater honestly), but it can corner at nearly 1g, and with their current incarnation of the 5.0, they're nearly getting 100hp/liter in an N/A... which used to be all the rage that the K20A2 and F20C's claim to fame. In that sense, they're out-Honda'ing Honda in having a great N/A motor.

I can't say too much for the Camaro or Challenger/Charger... though I have driven one of the newer 8 speed 5.7s and it was ok, but reminded me more of my big Cadillac than being sporty... but that Mustang is one hell of a car, and can do a lot of good things, whether it's in a straight line or around curves. It's a great time for cars. The Supra has some stiff competition. If it can beat out it's established competiton... it'll be *amazing*.

Sponsored