The Infamous 2nd Gear Crunch

[krees]

I’m not mechanically inclined, but what effect does adjusting the CMC have in relation to crunchiness//grinding? It does look pretty simple for even someone like me to try, but if it’s just removing free play in the clutch I don’t get how that would help. Sorry for being dumb

I believe the idea is to take the dead space out of the MC so that the pedal is releasing the clutch earlier ensuring it's released when shifting.

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[krees]

Update: I took it on a road test after I backed out the MC Rob about an 1/8th of a turn and still no crunch. Color me a happy camper!

Quick update after adjusting my clutch MC rod...no more 1-2 crunch (shifted from 1-2 @ about 6950 rpm)! It was great. It didn't seem to address some catching in 3 and 5 though but that didn't really bother me nearly as much as the 1-2 crunch. I did back the rod about an 1/8 of a turn counter clockwise from where it started getting resistance just to be safe. I didn't test after that slight adjustment but if I crunch again, I'll adjust back to the point of resistance on the rod.

Thanks for the info folks! For those with issues that haven't tried it, I'd suggest giving it a shot. It's an easy thing to do once you figure out how to fold yourself into the driver's side footwell.

 

[Nath]

I'm thinking all these 89 pages of "fixes" are successful, until the placebo effect wears out. Wishful thinking is great stuff,..but if any of these little "hacks" were remotely efficacious, Honda would have done it yesterday. What's happening in reality is that owners of defective CTR's have painfully learned to shift slower from first to second, and have finally made peace with their gods.
There are two alternative reasons Honda is not addressing this obvious grinding problem: Either it's too expensive to fix, or it's impossible to fix. They may have fixed it on the later CTR's, but they certainly wouldn't tell us that,..obviously it would set off a firestorm of protest from earlier buyers who'd want their transmissions replaced with the later version.

 

[krees]

I'm thinking all these 89 pages of "fixes" are successful, until the placebo effect wears out. Wishful thinking is great stuff,..but if any of these little "hacks" were remotely efficacious, Honda would have done it yesterday. What's happening in reality is that owners of defective CTR's have painfully learned to shift slower from first to second, and have finally made peace with their gods.
There are two alternative reasons Honda is not addressing this obvious grinding problem: Either it's too expensive to fix, or it's impossible to fix. They may have fixed it on the later CTR's, but they certainly wouldn't tell us that,..obviously it would set off a firestorm of protest from earlier buyers who'd want their transmissions replaced with the later version.

I appreciate and respect what you are saying but I'd have to disagree a bit. Adjusting the CMC rod did have a positive impact on shifting from 1st to 2nd. In fact, I can now shift as fast as I can from 1-2 at or near redline without a crunch whereas, there was a nasty crunch before the adjustment. I'd call that a bit more than placebo. Do you have a 1-2 crunch? If so, have you tried adjusting the rod?

 

[Gansan]

I'm thinking all these 89 pages of "fixes" are successful, until the placebo effect wears out. Wishful thinking is great stuff,..but if any of these little "hacks" were remotely efficacious, Honda would have done it yesterday. What's happening in reality is that owners of defective CTR's have painfully learned to shift slower from first to second, and have finally made peace with their gods.
There are two alternative reasons Honda is not addressing this obvious grinding problem: Either it's too expensive to fix, or it's impossible to fix. They may have fixed it on the later CTR's, but they certainly wouldn't tell us that,..obviously it would set off a firestorm of protest from earlier buyers who'd want their transmissions replaced with the later version.

I agree with what you are saying, but the clutch adjustment is the one thing that some of us have been pointing at for a long time, and has a logical and plausible physical connection to gear grinding.

 

[Nath]

I agree with what you are saying, but the clutch adjustment is the one thing that some of us have been pointing at for a long time, and has a logical and plausible physical connection to gear grinding.

Basically that's my point,..that if a simple adjustment fixes this horrendous problem, you would have to think Honda would be very happy to do this with a service call. And yes, I do have the 1-2 grind. I'm glad if that adjustment works for you,..me, I don't want to take chances with voiding my extended warranty. My personal hack is I shift 1-3 almost ALL the time. Thanks a lot, Honda. Not.

 

[TypeSiR]

Basically that's my point,..that if a simple adjustment fixes this horrendous problem, you would have to think Honda would be very happy to do this with a service call. And yes, I do have the 1-2 grind. I'm glad if that adjustment works for you,..me, I don't want to take chances with voiding my extended warranty. My personal hack is I shift 1-3 almost ALL the time. Thanks a lot, Honda. Not.

To be honest, the likelihood of voiding your warranty by adjusting the CMC rod (which takes 5 minutes and without physical modification) is less than the chance of getting hit by a car while crossing the street or getting into an accident by simply driving. So, risk tolerance is subjective but can be put in proper perspective by comparing to other daily things that we do for granted. It's all good if you don't wanna to wrench it but it's really harmless.

 

[Gansan]

Basically that's my point,..that if a simple adjustment fixes this horrendous problem, you would have to think Honda would be very happy to do this with a service call. And yes, I do have the 1-2 grind. I'm glad if that adjustment works for you,..me, I don't want to take chances with voiding my extended warranty. My personal hack is I shift 1-3 almost ALL the time. Thanks a lot, Honda. Not.

My belief is that their assembly line process likely has some kind of inconsistency or flaw, in that the clutch adjustment seems to vary more than it should between cars. Some people who grind gears have reported their clutch engages very close to the floor. In other cases such as mine, the clutch engages closer to the top. The adjustment that people are doing causes the pedal to start pushing the clutch closer to the top, causing it to be well and truly disengaged by the time the pedal is fully down. This minimizes the chance of the clutch dragging on the input shaft during the shift by giving some breathing space for your foot to still be moving as you move the shifter.

 

[Lust]

My belief is that their assembly line process likely has some kind of inconsistency or flaw, in that the clutch adjustment seems to vary more than it should between cars. Some people who grind gears have reported their clutch engages very close to the floor. In other cases such as mine, the clutch engages closer to the top. The adjustment that people are doing causes the pedal to start pushing the clutch closer to the top, causing it to be well and truly disengaged by the time the pedal is fully down. This minimizes the chance of the clutch dragging on the input shaft during the shift by giving some breathing space for your foot to still be moving as you move the shifter.

I would say this is the most probable cause. My first CTR has a properly adjusted pedal and had smooth shifting from day one. My second CTR had a ton of pedal free play and grabbed low to the ground. My shifts all across the board were crunchy. I adjusted my pedal to have more throw and to have less free play. Made a night and day difference in shifting. Butter smooth when all warmed up.

 

[EnjoyDriving]

Well said, and I am not good with the terms, so I need to clarify, "clutch engages" = "clutch biting", right? Mine would start biting when my clutch is more than 1/2 up from the floor, so closer to the top. So, is that good? I don't have grinding and I do feel the biting point is better than my previous manual cars.

My belief is that their assembly line process likely has some kind of inconsistency or flaw, in that the clutch adjustment seems to vary more than it should between cars. Some people who grind gears have reported their clutch engages very close to the floor. In other cases such as mine, the clutch engages closer to the top. The adjustment that people are doing causes the pedal to start pushing the clutch closer to the top, causing it to be well and truly disengaged by the time the pedal is fully down. This minimizes the chance of the clutch dragging on the input shaft during the shift by giving some breathing space for your foot to still be moving as you move the shifter.

 

[jsyar]

All that I can say is that since I replaced all the rubber bushings in the shifting linkage with Acuity bushings that I haven't experienced a grind since. I approached this problem in a logical manner and tried one item at a time until I finally resolved the issue. I followed this process

1. Complain to the dealer and have them take a look at it.
2. Complain to the dealer a second time and have them replace the transmission oil.
3. Replace the shifting knob with a heavier and longer knob.
4. Replaced the slave cylinder with CDV removed.
5. Replace the cable bushings at the transmission.
6. Replace the shifter base bushings.

After each successive step I still experienced a grind between 1st to 2nd. After step 6 above, I never had a grind again. I don't know if it's an accumulation of the above items or if it's just step 6.

After hearing about the adjustment solution coupled with my process, I'm skeptical that the problem lies in the shifting mechanism of the entire system to the transmission. There is too much loss in the bushings and cables. This doesn't allow the levers at the transmission to move enough under the 1st to 2nd transition. This is a theory and I have no proof, so I can't call it a fact.

 

[Gansan]

Well said, and I am not good with the terms, so I need to clarify, "clutch engages" = "clutch biting", right? Mine would start biting when my clutch is more than 1/2 up from the floor, so closer to the top. So, is that good? I don't have grinding and I do feel the biting point is better than my previous manual cars.

Yes, that's right. "engages" = "biting" in this case.

If it starts biting more than half way up or around halfway, then that's normal. Of course, we don't want it too close to the top, because if so, that means the clutch might not be completely engaged (clamped together securely by the pressure plate) when the pedal is all the way up. That's why there is a specific adjustment procedure from the manufacturer.

 

[Z06Chris]

So my car has done the 2nd gear grind exactly once every 800-1k miles. 4th time in 4k miles. They're getting increasingly louder.

Got it on video really good today.

Disregard the kpop. My wife loves it

At least at the end of the day.. I've got 3 audible grinds caught by my dash cam. Louder each time. Wish Honda would make a fix but they're too busy pumping out these cars to make $ to care.




*great it just grinded again afyer 20 miles. Really bad. The grinds are getting worse and more frequent. First grind at 300 miles then around 1400 miles then 3k miles then 3850 miles and now 3870 miles.

 

[EnjoyDriving]

Hey, have you tried adjusting the clutch pedal rod yet?

So my car has done the 2nd gear grind exactly once every 800-1k miles. 4th time in 4k miles. They're getting increasingly louder.

Got it on video really good today.

Disregard the kpop. My wife loves it

At least at the end of the day.. I've got 3 audible grinds caught by my dash cam. Louder each time. Wish Honda would make a fix but they're too busy pumping out these cars to make $ to care.




*great it just grinded again afyer 20 miles. Really bad. The grinds are getting worse and more frequent. First grind at 300 miles then around 1400 miles then 3k miles then 3850 miles and now 3870 miles.

 

[Z06Chris]

Hey, have you tried adjusting the clutch pedal rod yet?

Not yet. I'll have to go back and read the thread on that unles you want to teach me '

The grind is killing me.

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