The 2020 Si based on poster's complaints and misconceptions.

  1. FC3L15B7

    FC3L15B7 I'm a machine.

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    #1 FC3L15B7, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    The 2020 Si based on poster's complaints and misconceptions.

    I bought a 2020 Civic 2 Door Coupe Si almost a month ago. I was less than 12-hours away from buying a 2019 when I saw the 2020s.

    For those of you questioning the 2020 updates, I can simplify them for you a bit, as I've been following the Si since 2017 and all the major complaints.

    First off, the change in final drive ratio. Everyone knows it's shorter by 6%, but the actual specification is 4.35:1, which differs from 4.11:1 in the 2017-2019s. The 2020 is rated at an estimated 26 mpg city/36 mpg highway/30 mpg combined. At the following speeds per gear, I've achieved a best combined city/highway fuel mileage with a full fuel tank of 5.4 L/100 KM (43.56 MPG) @ 110 KPH highway speeds in my 2020:

    (in KPH)
    1st 0-14
    2nd 15-24
    3rd 25-39
    4th 40-59
    5th 60-74
    6th 75+

    best-fuel-mileage.jpg

    The short answer is, it's more how you drive than the difference in the final drive ratio. I don't really care that the estimated EPA rating is 2 mpg lower than 2017-2019 when I'm smashing the highway rating in combined economy.

    Another common question is about Honda Sensing and I've read a lot of people saying they were glad to have a 2019 instead of a 2020 because they didn't want Honda Sensing. It doesn't make any Sense. ;) You can disable Honda Sensing features, but just having them there should lower your insurance premium. In most driving conditions, they don’t usually interfere.

    The Lane Keeping Assist System [Lane Keeping Assist function] is wonderful when you're tired. Or, when you access something else in the car. I call it the "Coffee Button", so when I reach for my hot coffee, if I'm not already using the LKAS Lane Keeping, I turn it on so I can focus more on not spilling my coffee. =D

    From time to time, they do interfere and these are the issues I've had with it:
    - false sensing with Adaptive Cruise Control around a curve where it detects a vehicle in a different lane, believing it's in front of me and slowing down the car temporarily; usually for just a second (rarely occurs)
    - false sensing with Lane Keeping Assist System [Lane Departure Warning function] when hugging one side of the lane to avoid debris from heavy trucks (moderately occurs, depending on type of traffic I'm in)
    - people cutting in front of me from another lane and invoking a hard-brake situation with Adaptive Cruise Control (commonly occurs - but I will also state, it's hardly the system's fault - avoid it by shortening the number of car lengths configured with your ACC or put your foot on the accelerator when someone does that to temporarily cancel the automatic braking)

    The Collision Mitigating Braking System is a no-brainer. The insurance companies love cars that don't just run over people or into things when the driver isn't paying attention. Let's face it, no one is paying attention 100% of the time and if they "are", they're actually just staring into the abyss. ;)

    These systems can be turned on and off individually for the most part. Adaptive Cruise Control and Lane Keeping Assist System (including Collision Mitigation) can remain enabled or disabled all the time, depending on its status when you last drove. Take my advice though and leave Lane Keeping Assist System ENABLED anyway, so if you have a medical emergency that prevents you from controlling the car, it will assist you. Worst case scenario, if you're leaving the road, LKAS will keep you in the lane and if you do manage to force the car off onto the shoulder or do not stop for a car or object, Collision Mitigation will slow and try to stop the car if necessary. It would really suck to have a survivable medical emergency and die in an accident or write off your car. Honda listened to reason and installed Honda Sensing Suite to the Si in 2020 because that's what it was missing most.

    Now, moving on to exterior/interior aesthetics and functions. Most of this is personal taste, but I will explain why I feel the way I feel about these aspects of the car.

    The updating/removal of front honeycomb fake vents/fog light housings: GOOD
    Reason? Fake vents never look good, no matter what kind of car. The "accents" on the new fog light housings are air deflectors. There is a space and an indentation - each on their respective side of the car, under the deflectors - behind the fog light housings where the fake honeycomb used to be for the full Honda Sensing Suite. It looks much better than the passenger side open-honeycombs in previous years and looks more symmetrical.

    Ditching the halogens for standard LED low/high/fog beams: GOOD
    Reason? LEDs lenses look cooler when the headlights are off during the day. They have superior lighting in the dark. You can see so well ahead of you and directly in front of you with the fog lamps. Also, the cleanest white light is beautiful, especially with reflective delineators and cat eyes on the highway. There are no more projector lights - 2020 Si models have LED lights all around. The LEDs had been updated in 2019 from the poorly rated ones in 2017-2018, so as of 2019, the poor ratings for the LED headlights should no longer be applicable, even though the ratings on the IIHS website say it's 2020 applicable. If it were, the halogen projector low beams and halogen reflector high beams wouldn't be on the list under the Si trim, so screw the IIHS because their information on this is flawed and unreliable. :p

    Additional red accent and stitching: it caused me to changed my choice of paint color
    Due to the additional red interior, I bought a black car instead of the blue I originally wanted. I just didn't want a car that was blue with chrome accent with a black, silver, red and faux carbon fiber interior. The black looked better with the addition of red, but this is just my personal take on it. It also looks nice in white, or if you like a red car, that would match well. If you do want a blue car, you can upgrade the dashboard accents to blue (or black), but I haven't seen an option for blue or black seat accents, so for the cost, you may just want to leave it red. It's really down to personal taste, but options are available.

    Standard black wheels: GOOD
    While I like the black with machined face of the previous years, the 18" matte black wheels look meaner and have thinner spokes, showing more brake hardware and hinting they may be lighter. To me, they look sportier. Winter tire option: 17" Enkei Draco Blacks – they’re expensive, but keeps up a mean look.

    Updated infotainment system: GOOD
    Reason? Although the system itself is still suffers a bit of latency, the 2019 addition of a manual volume knob has further additions in control buttons for 2020. These allow for some changes to be applied immediately as they do not rely on the infotainment system to apply them.

    Addition of "engine sound" through speakers: I used to care, but after owning the 2020, I no longer care.
    Reason? The exhaust noise through the speakers is not "faked", but rather, it's "piped in". It's the actual exhaust note, but very subtle, so for those worried about it, don't even think about it, either negatively or positively. It won’t matter because you won’t be able to tell anyway. :p

    I hope this overview of these changes and features clears up some conjecture by those who don't own one. If you're happy with your 2017-2019, who cares what I think - after all, it's individual preference. On the other hand, if you don't own one yet and you're debating whether or not you want a pre-2020 or get the 2020, you may want to consider the true answers from someone who was going to get the 2019 that actually bought a 2020 to address these debated questions before you make up your mind. For me, I immediately decided to buy a 2020 over a 2019 the moment I saw the updates. The difference in cost was negligible. Feel free to PM me any questions. Start living your dreams – or rather, your Earth Dreams. :)
     
  2. Jeffers

    Jeffers Senior Member

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    #2 Jeffers, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
    Good info for someone shopping for his own 2020 Si coupe.
    Thanks,


    Update:
    Bought my own Si Coupe today!
     
  3. Honda_RacerX

    Honda_RacerX Senior Member

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    #savethecouopes
     
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  4. OP
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    FC3L15B7

    FC3L15B7 I'm a machine.

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    #savethecouopes - that time you wish you could edit someone else's message. hehe.
     
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  5. gtman

    gtman Senior Member

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    What you talkin' 'bout, Willis? Couopes are a thing as you can clearly see from post #2 of this linked thread:

    https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125240
     
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  6. OP
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    FC3L15B7

    FC3L15B7 I'm a machine.

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  7. COOL COUPE

    COOL COUPE Senior Member

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    This is a great write up. Thank you. I will always love my 2019 sport injected. The prisim of time may show that the division line is right here 2019 / 2020. I mean time may turn the Si into an automatic shift. Should that happen down the road folks will say ... Yeah beginning in 2020 Honda introduced product value options that did not involve mechanical parts but rather tech ... I like to think sans all the tech nanny s my car is pure. Now the door is open for the " parallel park" features that Ford offers, a 10 speed auto, etc. I think I now have great respect for the 2020 and look forward to the gen 11 to see where this goes...
     
  8. Drake

    Drake Senior Member

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    #8 Drake, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
    While the increase in features for 2020 come at an objectively undeniable bargain for the small increase in price, I still disagree with you that all the add-ons make the car unquestionably better.

    I think most people agree that the Si's gearing was already pretty short (we couldn't even reach 60mph without shifting into 3rd gear), and now for 2020 that gearing is even shorter. Whether that is a benefit for you depends completely on where and at what speeds you are typically driving at.

    If you offered me the choice between an Si with Honda Sensing and an equivalent Si without it, I would still choose the car without sensing. I chose a manual-transmission sporty car because I want to drive it, not have it drive me. Sure, you might be able to turn most of it off, but down the road when something breaks it will undoubtedly be much costlier to repair/replace a damaged component if sensing is involved than if it isn't. And I am still wary of what might happen if an electronic system that can control my car's brakes, acceleration, and steering malfunctions at an inopportune time.

    I agree LEDs are pretty desirable and look upscale, but I must admit I prefer the look of the round pot-hole halogen housing to the LED scale-like look during the daytime. Also, in general I haven't gotten used to how bright LEDs on other cars can be and am often blinded by oncoming traffic with their LEDs at night.

    Appearance changes are of course subjective, and while I agree the black rims look great in isolation, but when fitted to a car that still has chrome trim above the side windows it looks odd. The silver rims on the 17-19 Si give a more cohesive stock look from the side. The fake bumper vents have always been a controversial design choice and I don't think much was improved (or necessarily hurt) with the body-color inserts.

    Of course, these are just my take given my own personality, and I can understand that not everyone has the same opinion/tastes in technology and design as me :respect:
     
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  9. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

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    Excellent post, thank you. Couple random comments/questions:

    Interesting, I hadn't heard this. Which buttons were added?

    This is a good point, and it's one of the main reasons I appreciate the addition of the Sensing features. My 2017 CR-V has Sensing, and fortunately I haven't yet needed it to avoid an accident - but it's nice to know it's there, and I don't generally find it interfering with day-to-day driving. Maybe a question for the peanut gallery and not for you specifically, but: does anyone know if the Sensing features are exactly the same across different Honda vehicles and model years? I'm just curious if, say, LKAS behaves exactly the same in a 2017 CR-V and a 2020 Si, or if Honda updated the hardware/software in newer cars.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised that someone is selling the dashboard trim in different colors. Any idea where could I find those accents?
     
  10. Maroco

    Maroco Senior Member

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    On the topic of the new leds.... Every single night i take my car out people are flashing their brights at me, assuming i have my brights on i guess? I have to keep my finger on the turn stalk so i can flash them back immediately with my actual brights.

    They are bright as hell and i love them. But oncoming traffic does not.
     
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  11. amirza786

    amirza786 Senior Member

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    Good write up. This is the way all new cars are heading. Like it or not. Honda didn't just add these new feature out of the blue... It comes from user demand. All of Honda's competition are doing it. I personally am not a fan of a lot of the new tech, give me good ol fashion buttons and knobs!

    On another note, I was at my mechanics yesterday getting my oil changed, and this was parked in front of his shop.

    I don't know the year, but it has over 200k on it, needs a trans rebuild, and possibly an engine rebuild. Paint is shot, but body is good. Doesn't have any tech, not even ABS. Owner is asking $15k. If I can talk him down, might pick it up as a project car

    IMG_20191123_104902.jpg
     
  12. OP
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    FC3L15B7

    FC3L15B7 I'm a machine.

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    I understand the viewpoint. I'm a purest from a driving aspect and if the nanny's were intrusive and could not be disabled, I would feel differently. I'm okay with technology, so long as I can choose to use, or not. :)
     
  13. OP
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    FC3L15B7

    FC3L15B7 I'm a machine.

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    It's not so much that car is better in a sense that it's not worth having a pre-2020, but more than Honda addressed things that people did complain about.

    I agree the gearing is short and perhaps did not need to have any changes to the final drive. I was just pointing out that it's not affecting much, as some people want to throw their hands in the air over it. It still gets fantastic fuel economy, so it's really hardcore to say "no" to any one factor, which is why I wanted to post about it. I'm able to get the same relative fuel economy most people report getting with pre-2020, so I'm not concerned and I don't feel anyone should be.

    It would definitely cost more to repair or replace a part of Honda Sensing Suite if it fails. It is a reasonably proven technology though and I would rather butter up the insurance company in the meanwhile than worry about whether it may or may not fail at a later time.

    As you've mentioned, it's a personal preference. As much as my best friend doesn't want electric door windows because they have a higher failure rate and are more expensive to repair, I will never buy another car with manual winders ever again and would rather pay for it. ;)
     
  14. mjh

    mjh Senior Member

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    Great write up, and mirrors most of my impressions after having put about 1000 miles on my sedan. I'm glad to have Honda Sensing, although I turn off RDM a lot of the time, because I find it too sensitive on the winding 2-lane roads I take to and from school. I'm VERY happy to have adaptive cruise for long highway trips. As for mileage, for my first two tanks, mostly local driving with a lot of stoplights, I averaged a shade over 30mpg (manually calculated). On a recent run up and down I-95, trip computer was showing an average MPG of 40-42. It was interesting to see your shift points, they are lower than I would normally do. I plan try them out for a tank and see how it goes. I'd also add that the infotainment, if anything has been a pleasant surprise, perhaps because my expectations were so low. Other than one random cutout in Android Auto, it's worked very well.
     
  15. OP
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    FC3L15B7

    FC3L15B7 I'm a machine.

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    [QUOTE="MaxPower, post: 717933, member: 9623"[/QUOTE]

    - fan speed control buttons were added, but that may have been part of 2019 now that I think about it. They're definitely not there in pre-2019.

    I really don't know if they updated anything specific.

    It's a dealer option.
     
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