Stop worrying so much about oil brand

[dallasjhawk]

Yes because you know better than the much more qualified engineers who put millions of man hours into designing and producing the engine . Follow your oil life % and replace when necessary; otherwise you're wasting your money.

Actually the engineers were charged with making the most efficient engine possible while meeting the strict EPA guidelines for fuel economy and emissions. They really could care less if you follow the intervals. Its all about costs to consumers so of course Honda is going to advertise longer oil change intervals, no one wants to buy a car if one can go 10k miles and the other recommends 3k these days. Me, Ill be smart change every 4-5k miles since I know what a turbo can do to oil, especially water thin 0-20.

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[fenix-silver]

Some anecdotal evidence that car makers don't always recommend the viscosity that is truly best for the engine: Subaru turbo EJ's are notorious for spun bearings. The manual calls for 5w-30 synthetic, however it is well known that almost every 5w-30 will shear down too much, leading to spun bearings. Most recommend running a xw-40 synthetic. Marginally worse for fuel economy, but way better for the longevity of the engine. If anyone thinks that engineers get the last say vs corporate saying they need to meet certain efficiency and price objectives, they are fooling themselves.

 

[Gruber]

It's very true that Honda engineers know what oil is "best," for Honda cars, however,......

- the engineers are not free to say what they think because they work for a corporation;
- the meaning of "best" is slightly different for Honda Corporation and for many Honda car owners.

It is vitally important to Honda's existence to be able to claim the maximum possible gas mileage and the lowest possible cost of ownership. This is due to both to competition and regulations, which are different in different countries. On the other hand, it is not a priority for any car manufacturer to make engines run forever. For many owners it is the reverse: they don't care about spending a bit more for maintenance and don't care about 2% more gas mileage, but want to beat records in how long they can keep their engine running.

Proof: European car makers recommend higher viscosity oils. If someone thinks these cars are built differently, (less tightly, with big loose gaps, hahaha) she is deluding herself. Even the same Japanese cars sold in Europe specify thicker oils in the manuals than those sold in the US.

It is not clear which philosophy is more rational: make it cheap to save money to be able to buy a new one more often, or keep it running to 500 000 miles at any cost. Everyone should pick what makes them happier.

 

[CVCTURBO]

I use Rotella diesel 15w-40, what the heck are y'all talking about 0w-20??

 

[charleswrivers]

Actually the engineers were charged with making the most efficient engine possible while meeting the strict EPA guidelines for fuel economy and emissions.

Agreed 100%. Oil viscosity recommendations have changed on other makes/models mid-cycle with no other alterations to the engine... with 5w-20 preceding 0w-20 for many, even before Honda made the jump. I'm not saying 0w-20 isn't good enough... or that 5w-30 isn't better or worse... because 99% of what you see online is opinionated BS and has no quantifiable data to back it up. The push to go to 0w-20... and to 0w-16 is about efficiency. I do think where you go thicker and thicker... flow will ultimately be compromised. L-series and K-series engine... blocks at least, even if they've been so heavily revised they are the same in name only... are pushing 2 decades of age. At least the Ks were originally designed for 5w-30, if memory serves. My RSX sure took it. Pretty sure the Z3s in gen 8 did too. My Z7 9th gen called for 0w-20... so does the J35 in the Odyssey... and that engines relatively long in the tooth too... J30/32/35s were taking 5w-30 before 0w-20 became, 'a thing'. Our friends across the pond are still using 30 weight oils vice 20 weight oils on their CivicXs. Same engines.

I tend to follow the book... at least never doing less. I did short cycle a change before I went to Fontana at 30%... but I had a decently long drive to do and knew hard driving was ahead. I generally don't... but whatever other people choose to do with their stuff is their business... and it makes them feel good about it... and doing it at 30% before a 1000+ mile trip with some of the hardest miles the car would ever take made me feel good. Of everything I think we can at least agree on... whether it's a waste of money... resources... or helps engine longevity... it certainly doesn't hurt engine longevity to do oil drain/fills more often. Severe maintenance schedules have been around since time out of mind and have specified oil changes at 1/2 mileage intervals. Now I do think the MM does a decent job of taking this into account. My Odyssey has varied from between 8-9k miles to down near 5k miles to get to ~15% depending on the conditions in which it was run. There is some logic, however, for people who are tuned to run higher boost which will, in turn cause higher temperatures at the turbocharger and IATs, that we are running the car harder than those engineer's accounted for. How do we quantify this? OCIs... and good feelings I suppose by doing what we think is best. What more can we do?

I don't believe in boutique oils that much however... or additives beyond what comes already in the oil for standard OCIs. Do I think they may have better (or more) in their additive packs that may let you do a very long OCI? Sure. But I'll just buy other inexpensive oil and change it around 5000-8000 miles... before the MM reaches 0%. I don't think I'm ahead or behind changing cheap oil more often... and whether the 'special' oil is still good or not (and there definitely is data to show it is)... I know anything too small for the filter to pick up is, for the most part, is being gotten rid of as it's suspended in the old oil when I drain. I'm of the opinion nothing keeps an engine clean like using a decent filter that's changed when it should and changing the oil with clean oil of adequate quality when it should... and it's only been in the last few years we've gone to a filter every other change. OCIs like 25000 miles may be doable with Amsoil… but... well... I guess I just don't know why I'd do it. I think they have non-API certed oils because they exceed the allowable zinc (which is supposed to be a good thing) ...but I'll just change my cheap oil 3x over instead... and not have a lot of super fine soot or randomness sit suspended in it like that awesome Amsoil would have. And using some of these better, non-API certed oils would be contrary to your owners manual. However... we're not renting a license to use our cars... they're OURS. We can do whatever we want to with them and enjoy the consequences... good or bad.

My opinion. For what it's worth... and it shouldn't matter that much to someone that has a different one... as long as they know in their heart of hearts their car is being taken car of in the best way they think they're doing. I bet none of us are going to compare bearing wear with each other in 10-20 years anyway... so if we're all happy and willing to spend the money on whatever in the world we want to do... does it really matter?

 

[dallasjhawk]

Agreed 100%. Oil viscosity recommendations have changed on other makes/models mid-cycle with no other alterations to the engine... with 5w-20 preceding 0w-20 for many, even before Honda made the jump. I'm not saying 0w-20 isn't good enough... or that 5w-30 isn't better or worse... because 99% of what you see online is opinionated BS and has no quantifiable data to back it up. The push to go to 0w-20... and to 0w-16 is about efficiency. I do think where you go thicker and thicker... flow will ultimately be compromised. L-series and K-series engine... blocks at least, even if they've been so heavily revised they are the same in name only... are pushing 2 decades of age. At least the Ks were originally designed for 5w-30, if memory serves. My RSX sure took it. Pretty sure the Z3s in gen 8 did too. My Z7 9th gen called for 0w-20... so does the J35 in the Odyssey... and that engines relatively long in the tooth too... J30/32/35s were taking 5w-30 before 0w-20 became, 'a thing'. Our friends across the pond are still using 30 weight oils vice 20 weight oils on their CivicXs. Same engines.

I tend to follow the book... at least never doing less. I did short cycle a change before I went to Fontana at 30%... but I had a decently long drive to do and knew hard driving was ahead. I generally don't... but whatever other people choose to do with their stuff is their business... and it makes them feel good about it... and doing it at 30% before a 1000+ mile trip with some of the hardest miles the car would ever take made me feel good. Of everything I think we can at least agree on... whether it's a waste of money... resources... or helps engine longevity... it certainly doesn't hurt engine longevity to do oil drain/fills more often. Severe maintenance schedules have been around since time out of mind and have specified oil changes at 1/2 mileage intervals. Now I do think the MM does a decent job of taking this into account. My Odyssey has varied from between 8-9k miles to down near 5k miles to get to ~15% depending on the conditions in which it was run. There is some logic, however, for people who are tuned to run higher boost which will, in turn cause higher temperatures at the turbocharger and IATs, that we are running the car harder than those engineer's accounted for. How do we quantify this? OCIs... and good feelings I suppose by doing what we think is best. What more can we do?

I don't believe in boutique oils that much however... or additives beyond what comes already in the oil for standard OCIs. Do I think they may have better (or more) in their additive packs that may let you do a very long OCI? Sure. But I'll just buy other inexpensive oil and change it around 5000-8000 miles... before the MM reaches 0%. I don't think I'm ahead or behind changing cheap oil more often... and whether the 'special' oil is still good or not (and there definitely is data to show it is)... I know anything too small for the filter to pick up is, for the most part, is being gotten rid of as it's suspended in the old oil when I drain. I'm of the opinion nothing keeps an engine clean like using a decent filter that's changed when it should and changing the oil with clean oil of adequate quality when it should... and it's only been in the last few years we've gone to a filter every other change. OCIs like 25000 miles may be doable with Amsoil… but... well... I guess I just don't know why I'd do it. I think they have non-API certed oils because they exceed the allowable zinc (which is supposed to be a good thing) ...but I'll just change my cheap oil 3x over instead... and not have a lot of super fine soot or randomness sit suspended in it like that awesome Amsoil would have. And using some of these better, non-API certed oils would be contrary to your owners manual. However... we're not renting a license to use our cars... they're OURS. We can do whatever we want to with them and enjoy the consequences... good or bad.

My opinion. For what it's worth... and it shouldn't matter that much to someone that has a different one... as long as they know in their heart of hearts their car is being taken car of in the best way they think they're doing. I bet none of us are going to compare bearing wear with each other in 10-20 years anyway... so if we're all happy and willing to spend the money on whatever in the world we want to do... does it really matter?

BOOM, well said. And while I choose to run 5w-30 and change when I do, I would never tell anyone else what to do. Its like my setup on my car. I'll tell you exactly what it is, but Im not telling anyone they have to run. Do the research to be able to make an educated decision on whatever each persons preference is

 

[fenix-silver]

@dallasjhawk what 5w-30 have you been using and have you done any UOAs on it? I'm really tempted to run some type of 30 weight oil in my Si as it always seems like turbo engines benefit from higher viscosity for longevity.

 

[Jeezer]

the engineers take all driving habits and styles into consideration when recommending the oil type,

they don't assume everybody buying the car will be driving like an 80 year old grandma on a sunday morning on her way to church

Engineers know how to design a car for certain applications. You could try to use that argument for literally any mod you do to a car. "Why change the suspension? Why change the exhaust? You think you know more than the engineers? Are you smarter than the Honda gods?" Like come on dude, do you really think that it's a waste of money to try something different if there is little to no risk and it provides valuable information to the entire civicx community?

The answer is as simple as the question. You don't have to be an engineer to know that a different input yields a different output. If I change my suspension then the car may ride worse, but the handling and mgp might go up. If I change my downpipe it might sound worse, but it will gain me efficiency and power. That argument is 99% invalid and truly just silly when you are literally in a forum where a large chunk of the people here are looking to modify their civics to get the most out of them. Your granny driving might end up being worse for your car than someone who drives spirited for 5 minutes a day. You just don't know because the car is brand new. Don't dissuade people to test harmless things like oil weight. I have changed oil in literally thousands of vehicles on all different platforms and never once has the "wrong oil" caused me or a customer any problems besides the obvious things like a thinner oil being more prone to seep through seals.

 

[Jeezer]

Not trying to further an argument by any means, but it's annoying that people so willingly share misinformation and try to talk people out of doing harmless things that would teach the community about our cars. It's just like the people who were telling the guy not to try to put oem paddle shifters on his base civic. What if it works? Half of the nay sayers would jump on board. Why even be a d**k about it when you could just say "eh, not my cup of tea. Hope it works out for you." We're supposed to be using this space to share, not to spread toxicity. If anything, take that crap to the facebook group

 

[dallasjhawk]

@dallasjhawk what 5w-30 have you been using and have you done any UOAs on it? I'm really tempted to run some type of 30 weight oil in my Si as it always seems like turbo engines benefit from higher viscosity for longevity.

Penz Ultra Plat Full Synthetic, have not done one but not really worried about it too much. Ill order one for my next change and get it done https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-Ultra-Platinum-5W-30-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-5-qt/55291206

 

[DKL]

To each their own. I like amsoil. I've gotten great wear numbers in my civic, and a couple bikes. The bikes shift smoothly. I like amsoil interceptor in the sleds. It doesn't stink too bad, and the power valves stay clean. To some I'm "wasting my money". Fair enough. I've wasted money on much worse things. If I switched to a cheaper oil, I still wouldn't retire a day sooner.

 

[mrkyle31]

Obviously your reading comprehension is very low. It is comforting to know that you are genuinely concerned with how others spend money on oil change intervals.

Not sure how my reading comprehension is low . Seems like everybody in this thread is concerned about how people spend their money on oil changes.

I get what you guys are saying and I understand there’s a lot of distrust for EPA ratings. However, oil has come a long way in modern times. There is literally nothing but hearsay being spread in this thread. Go to any car forum and you’ll see the same. People talk about how the manufacturers recommended oil weight isn’t the best for the engine like it’s some sort of conspiracy.

I put nothing but factory recommended oil in my cars and have never had a problem—and I race my cars (not my civic obviously). A WRX, Miata, and now my Corvette. My 2011 WRX I raced for years with the factory recommend 5w30 without issue. The bearing issue is completely overblown. The 4 cyl ringland on the EJ257 is not; one of my racing buddies went through three engines on stock and stage 1 tunes. Yes the 5w30 shears down a bit, but nobody seems to stop and think that perhaps the engineers knew it does and thus recommended 5w30 instead of 5w20 or 0w20? You bet your ass they did a zillion oil analyses when developing the engines.

But like I said, you guys are welcome to continue using the non recommended oil weights. Won’t cause any harm but you might lose a few mpg.

 

[saz468]

I see so many people here spending unnecessary money on “boutique” oils that you don’t need. Spend a few minutes reading a good summary (from the people that test your oil!) about why it doesn’t matter.

Every oil you can get off the shelf now is really good, yes even the Walmart Supertech oil and AmazonBasics oil are fantastic and it’s more than your stock internals civic will ever need.
Stop listening to the marketing that your Amsoil salesdude is trying to tell you, I’ve heard so many lies from them that even amsoil disproves.

Stop paying for marketing; it’s your money.. your problem, just trying to help out a fellow car enthusiast to stop being taken advantage of.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Aug-17-ENG.pdf

If you wanna learn *more*, go spend a few hours at bob is the oil guy, read the motor oil university.

The main issue with these cars is fuel dilution; the only solution is to change your oil more often. Not even the most expensive oil made from baby unicorn tears will prevent fuel from getting in your oil.

Personally, I use Supertech synthetic 5w30 and change it every 5k miles, it costs about $18 to change the oil and have a bunch leftover.

If I’m not mistaken I believe Quaker state bottles the supertech for Walmart but I’ve always heard on newer cars 2000 and up to use the oil weight the manufacturers use especially Honda’s. I’m not bad mouthing supertech but I’ll stick with mobile one been using it for years

 

[latole]

Flash_company you are 100% right except for oil grade, you must use 0-20

IMO it is because for most of these forum member it is their first car and the only thing they can talk about is oil , tires and wheels.
With time they will learn.

 

[latole]

I've been using any good synthetic 5W30 oil for the last three years.

Why not 0-20 ?

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