Some 2017 Civic Si details we learned

[skittles]

Hope they keep both the Si and Type R manual.......these are fun to drive cars that may not be for people, not willing to drive a manual transmission. Both are purest cars that are meant to be manuals. I recently drove a auto and then manual transmission Miata. The difference between the cars was substantial. The auto simply will never allow the driver the opportunity to really drive and wring out the car the way it was envisioned to driven. In automatic format, the car was similar to driving any 4 cylinder car. Kind of blah and nothing special. In manual form, the car left me with one of the biggest grins ever. Short throws, with the ability to down shift and upshift when necessary. Two drastically different cars. I am hopeful that the Si and Type R, stick to manual transmissions rather than compromising on the true purpose of these cars.

I pretty sure the Type R will only be MT...

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[mvance30]

I have a lead foot...can you say new clutch..aargh..Lol..

took my 15 si to the track with 700 miles on it and did a dozen hard runs in 3 hours. Ran like a champ and still no issues with the clutch and i'm about 19k on the car.

 

[oldman]

The 2015 SI, with 18"wheels (god love the wheels) thicker rear sway bar and larger exhaust is a phenomenal car. Completely underrated by the automotive press. I love mine... supercharger and 3" down pipe and email tune helps...

 

[oldman]

I pretty sure the Type R will only be MT...

yep, CVT no way, DSG type: too heavy, expensive and complicated (Honda likes none of that). I could see a ILX version with a turbo 260 ish engine and DSG /DCT.

 

[Bananaboy0820]

yep, CVT no way, DSG type: too heavy, expensive and complicated (Honda likes none of that). I could see a ILX version with a turbo 260 ish engine and DSG /DCT.

I think it would be silly for Honda to not include the DCT in this generation Si.

You'd be surprised to see how many DSG equipped GTIs and WRXs with CVTs. That would be a multiple missed sales opportunities for Honda.

Also since the Si is no longer the lone performance moniker in the Civic lineup the Type-R moves into the manual only designation.

Either way I'm in the market for a 6MT.

 

[DavidJBrooks]

I predict that the Si will go AWD before it gets anything other than a traditional manual. Which means never.

As someone else said, there has been and will continue to be an Si with a DCT, and it's called the ILX.

 

[mvance30]

The 2015 SI, with 18"wheels (god love the wheels) thicker rear sway bar and larger exhaust is a phenomenal car. Completely underrated by the automotive press. I love mine... supercharger and 3" down pipe and email tune helps...

I am not a fan of how mine handles. Might just be a FWD thing though and not much fault of the civic.

 

[All-Knowing]

Si engine leaked as 1.5!
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160725/OEM04/307259999/?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

 

[Design]

Just another rumor unfortunately, at least until we see spy shots of the motor. There are conflicting reports as to which configuration Honda will end up using. C&D says 2.0; this publication says the 1.5. As I said in the other thread, it's likely Honda is testing both. Which one they choose for the USDM market will be influenced by cost, fuel efficiency, and long term reliability.

Most (including me) expect Honda will go with the 2.0. But we're not ruling out the 1.5 just yet.

 

[17CivicTypeR_Brian]

1.5 would be such a huge mistake...!

 

[rezlab]

Si engine leaked as 1.5!
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160725/OEM04/307259999/?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

Done right, a 1.5 turbo could be OK. Lighter weight engine, and should be smoother at higher revs than the 2.0. My 2000 Civic with the 1.6 liter VTEC runs 4000 rpm on the freeway. It kinda drives me crazy, but it is smooth. It just needs more torque, which the 1.5 turbo ought to provide in abundance.

 

[Design]

It's difficult to say what the comfort zone of the 1.5 will be. But based on initial results from Hondata and others, there seems to be plenty more they can wring out of the configuration.

That said, I believe the TD03 is the single biggest limitation on the 1.5. To get to a target 220-230, they will have to raise boost to 18-20 PSI. That's a fairly large demand on a single scroll, and likely at the top end of the efficiency range. So they will either have to pair a larger turbo like a TD04 (and lose a bit of low end torque) or keep power faily conservative on the 1.5 (210-220).

CN: Is going to be a long four month wait lol.

 

[rezlab]

It's difficult to say what the comfort zone of the 1.5 will be. But based on initial results from Hondata and others, there seems to be plenty more they can wring out of the configuration.

That said, I believe the TD03 is the single biggest limitation on the 1.5. To get to a target 220-230, they will have to raise boost to 18-20 PSI. That's a fairly large demand on a single scroll, and likely at the top end of the efficiency range. So they will either have to pair a larger turbo like a TD04 (and lose a bit of low end torque) or keep power faily conservative on the 1.5 (210-220).

CN: Is going to be a long four month wait lol.

That's sad news - trading hp for torque. I love my 2000 Si, but it's a bipolar car - slow or VTEC loud fast yo. I'd like something with a bit more Umph around town, without having to beat on it.

 

[zx2down]

It's difficult to say what the comfort zone of the 1.5 will be. But based on initial results from Hondata and others, there seems to be plenty more they can wring out of the configuration.

That said, I believe the TD03 is the single biggest limitation on the 1.5. To get to a target 220-230, they will have to raise boost to 18-20 PSI. That's a fairly large demand on a single scroll, and likely at the top end of the efficiency range. So they will either have to pair a larger turbo like a TD04 (and lose a bit of low end torque) or keep power faily conservative on the 1.5 (210-220).

CN: Is going to be a long four month wait lol.

it could be a different turbo and head/cam change as well.

It really depends on what they want the new Si to be. A "sporty" Civic or a street racer. The R will likely be taking over the Road Racer/Street racer market for Honda, so I have a feeling the Si will be more of a "keeping up with Focus St" type of car that is more aimed at handling and luxury options. Nisa had a 1.6T that made 215HP in the JUKE NISMO RS. So a 220HP 1.5T Si is not out of the question.

While its direct competition, the Focus ST, is kind of a Boy Racer car I see the Si as possibly more of a Drivers car if they use the 1.5T.

 

[Design]

I don't disagree. The question is more on long term reliability. A small turbo like the TD03 needs to spool very high to pull the required volume into the motor to meet their power goals (210-240?). Could it be done? Yes; Hondata has proven that without question.

Now, could it be done reliably over the course of 200-300K? And could it be done without adding significant cost into reworking the 1.5's hardware? Those are the million dollar questions.

But I want to emphasize that I'm not sold on the idea of the 1.5 quite yet; just open to the possibility.

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